US Senate - Torture Report

[CJM555]

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014 ... re-report/

OD, best get your talking points prepared...

"One of the worst myths official Washington and its establishment media have told itself about the torture debate is that the controversy is limited to three cases of waterboarding at Guantánamo and a handful of bad Republican actors. In fact, a wide array of torture techniques were approved at the highest levels of the U.S. Government and then systematically employed in lawless US prisons around the world - at Bagram (including during the Obama presidency), CIA black sites, even to US citizens on US soil. So systematic was the torture regime that a 2008 Senate report concluded that the criminal abuses at Abu Ghraib were the direct result of the torture mentality imposed by official Washington.

American torture was not confined to a handful of aberrational cases or techniques, nor was it the work of rogue CIA agents. It was an officially sanctioned, worldwide regime of torture that had the acquiescence, if not explicit approval, of the top members of both political parties in Congress. It was motivated by far more than interrogation. The evidence for all of this is conclusive and overwhelming. And the American media bears much of the blame, as they refused for years even to use the word “torture” to describe any of this (even as they called these same techniques “torture” when used by American adversaries), a shameful and cowardly abdication that continues literally to this day in many of the most influential outlets."

[phuketrichard]

this hits home

“There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.” Gen. Barry McCaffrey said : “We tortured people unmercifully. We probably murdered dozens of them during the course of that, both the armed forces and the CIA.” Nobody needs this Senate report to demonstrate that the U.S. government became an official squad of torture (with the American public largely on board).

The answer NO way
no one will be held responsible

I am American and were Number 2

[CJM555]

this hits home

“There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.” Gen. Barry McCaffrey said : “We tortured people unmercifully. We probably murdered dozens of them during the course of that, both the armed forces and the CIA.” Nobody needs this Senate report to demonstrate that the U.S. government became an official squad of torture (with the American public largely on board).

The answer NO way
no one will be held responsible

I am American and were Number 2

Appreciate your comments and spot on with this quote;

Gen. Barry McCaffrey said : “We tortured people unmercifully. We probably murdered dozens of them during the course of that, both the armed forces and the CIA.” Nobody needs this Senate report to demonstrate that the U.S. government became an official squad of torture (with the American public largely on board).

[LTO]

The older I get the less impressed I am with this kind of report - the government (supposedly hesitantly) admitting doing something horrible 10 or 20 years ago that we all knew at the time they were doing but that they denied, and now reporting on it as if they aren't doing some horrible thing right now that they are denying but will admit to 10 or 20 years from now when it doesn't matter. It's all very tiresome and pointless. The law, us little people and our small thoughts about this sort of thing don't matter. Never have, never will. Best that can be hoped for in life is to fly low and not to get caught up in this sort of stuff.    

[General Mackevili]

Yep. They are practically begging us to not believe them about ANYTHING current.

[Milord]

I really don't know why everyone is so concerned about a little bit of torture. After all, we were greeted as liberators, Iraqi oil paid for the whole adventure and Iraq is now a beacon of stability and democracy in the Middle East. When things go this well we can afford to overlook a few foibles from the folks who are the authors of this amazing success. Right?

The sovereignty of the people in a democracy requires either (a) full transparency prior to the fact, or (b) full transparency after the fact. Post transparency allows the formation of an historical judgment that will then guide future actions. If Pre transparency is precluded due to the needs of operational secrecy, and if Post transparency is precluded to protect our respectability, then there is no democratic sovereignty. Waterboarding is a war crime and is generally regarded as ineffective in securing reliable intelligence. Once again (as with the secret bombing by Nixon of Cambodia), our enemies know what we did; only the American people do not. If we do not demand Post transparency and accountability, then our claims for democracy are hollow.

[vladimir]

The older I get the less impressed I am with this kind of report - the government (supposedly hesitantly) admitting doing something horrible 10 or 20 years ago that we all knew at the time they were doing but that they denied, and now reporting on it as if they aren't doing some horrible thing right now that they are denying but will admit to 10 or 20 years from now when it doesn't matter. It's all very tiresome and pointless. The law, us little people and our small thoughts about this sort of thing don't matter. Never have, never will. Best that can be hoped for in life is to fly low and not to get caught up in this sort of stuff.    

fwiw, LTO, I think citizens in most countries feel the same.

Just that the US has more foreign exposure

[Sailorman]

Torture for the American people (and an embarrassment) is having a President like Obama-Iben-Lying and know that the guy next to you probably voted for him.
'Half the population is below average."

[General Chatter]

Obama what a fucking joke....along with the whole political system in the states...
Blair Bush Obama....are the first on the list ...lock theses war criminals up...

[Sir_Quality_U_Feel]

If you don't have anything to hide, you don't have to worry. I'm glad we do what's needed to get shit done .