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Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam?

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:01 pm
by StroppyChops
Is the Secular World so anti-Christian, that it sways toward being pro-Islam?

There's an interesting little debate going on over at Debate.org at the moment that asks the above question.
http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-the-s ... -pro-islam

Here's a YES response from user soairist:
Yes. It is. The establishment of Islamic Courts in Europe prove that adherents to Islam aren't permitted to follow the laws of the State in which they reside. The fact that, in a Western Democracy, it can be ruled 'legal' for a male Islamic adherent to beat his wife is beyond atrocious; yet if a male citizen of the same State, who doesn't adhere to Islam, commits the same act, he will be charged accordingly to the laws of the State in which he resides. It is a double-standard that those who do not adhere to Islam have to endure. It is a situation whereby the Secular West is appeasing, and even supporting, the expansion of a religion in a predominantly non-religious region.
Here's a NO response from user jdatt2:
I find it to be the complete opposite At least here in the states, there isn't much of a "secular world." The U.S. is extremely pro-christian. To the point that separation of church and state no longer holds true. And it is extremely anti-islam. There were even billboards put up and groups created to convince others that ALL Muslims wanted to kill us all, etc. A mosque opened up in manhattan and people got together to protest it because it was too close to the world trade center. All religions are allowed some exceptions to the law. I don't like it but I don't really like a lot of law either. I do believe in religious freedom though and some rights which should be given to muslims are often mistaken as being pro-islam.

The problem with being pro-christian here is that we are also becoming anti-science. Which is funny because most scientists I know are christian.
This is of interest to me because when secular friends in Australia tell me that Australia doesn't need to be one religion or another, I'm usually more direct and forthright than they're used to me being. I tell them pretty straight, "Choose today whether you want Australia to identify as being Christian or Muslim." You cannot do nothing, if you believe you're choosing the none-of-the-above option, you're choosing a Muslim nation." Exactly as happened in KL a few years ago, which was previously an amicably three-religion state.

Thoughts either way?

Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:15 pm
by frank lee bent
Multiculturalism is pretty much a dead issue and failed.
All the chickens are coming home to roost.
Even Oz has a crackdown now for those visiting sensitive areas.
IMO we are already well advanced into a multipolar global conflict that will bleed over into civil society.
Already is defacto.

Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:05 pm
by Joon
I didn't have a religious upbringing so I'm very much ignorant about religions' history and I'm a hopelessly lousy Buddhist.
But the secular experience in France has been perceived rightly or wrongly ( that's another issue ) as anti-Islam. The French law establishing a secular State aimed at treating all religions equally and at preventing discriminatory treatment based on religion.
So it forbids the ostentatious display of one's religion at public schools and in public. Concretely, a Catholic girl was free to wear a cross at school as long as it was small enough to be hidden or go unnoticed. On the contrary, a Muslim devout girl was "ostentatiously displaying" her religion if she was wearing a scarf.
That led to a number of girls being expelled from schools for following their faith.
While it was the law, it was de facto impeding religious freedom. So in this particular case, secularism was very much perceived as anti-Islam.

Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:07 pm
by StroppyChops
frank lee bent wrote:Multiculturalism is pretty much a dead issue and failed.
All the chickens are coming home to roost.
Even Oz has a crackdown now for those visiting sensitive areas.
IMO we are already well advanced into a multipolar global conflict that will bleed over into civil society.
Already is defacto.
Do you mean that the tolerance pendulum is swinging back into old territory, Frank?

Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:13 pm
by StroppyChops
Joon wrote:While it was the law, [the banning of the wearing of hijab etc.] was de facto impeding religious freedom. So in this particular case, secularism was very much perceived as anti-Islam.
I know that banning the burqa in French schools was widely celebrated in Australia by certain - and not especially religious - sectors, it is something that is commonly despised in Oz. As a biker I wear a leather skullcap when I'm riding, and while I remove my helmet off the bike I leave the skullcap on. I've had a couple of situations where shop owners have told me to remove it as head coverings are not (according to them) allowed. When I've pointed out people of other faiths/cultures that cover their heads to a far greater degree, the shop owners either shrug sheepishly and back off, or stand their ground and what to argue. At this point I unleash the inner Educationalist and am yet to lose that particular argument. Fair point, or not?

Edit: Kiwi, sheep mentioned ^.

Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:06 pm
by taranis
404 Not Known

Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:20 pm
by StroppyChops
Thanks for the post, taranis - I'm not sure if your last paragraph was to be taken entirely seriously but you might enjoy this:
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/artic ... vilization" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:43 pm
by taranis
404 Not Known

Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:28 pm
by dagenham
All religions are intellectually weak.

Faith is a big black hole that can filled with any personal interpretation, which than then can used to rationalize any behavior.

Religious conflict, along with territory issues, constitute the basis for all large scale slaughter and maiming between humans.

Pan-humanism is the way to go. Forget all those ridiculous stories, parables and commandments.

Lynch all the arrogant people who work toward any kind of "conversion" of fellow human beings.

Wake up, fellow humans and recognize that life is what you see in front of you - make the most of it whilst you are here.

Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:45 pm
by Soi Dog
dagenham wrote: Forget all those ridiculous stories, parables and commandments.
I'm a big fan of the 10 commandments. Except for 3 and 7. And sometimes 9. But if Moses came down the mountain with just the 7 commandments, they would have all laughed at him.