Recycling a deceased’s ID

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Freightdog
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Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by Freightdog »

I was party to a discussion this evening regarding a younger family member. She’s in her early 20’s, has no surviving immediate blood relatives, and has no ID, birth certificate, or anything else.
An idea being promoted, sufficiently common enough here to not raise any concern, is for her to assume the identity of another person who died recently.

This idea of reusing identities belonging to someone else is nothing new- I’ve encountered this in Asia, such as Bangladesh on a few occasions, before. However, there We’re other ways around problems like this, semi official; it usually required several rounds of baksheesh and half a tree of paperwork, which is why most people would simply lie. However, once in a while, the situation would come back to bite someone

In this girl’s case, though, she’ll artificially age 7 years, plus a few other irregularities which I won’t go into.
I’m sure there must be a better way around the issue, but would welcome knowledgeable input about what better procedures may exist.


ps. If you can’t provide input and discussion without slagging off Cambodia, or demanding some sort of inquisition beyond the admittedly limited outline provided, feel free to read a different thread. As someone used to have in their signature; This ain’t Kansas, and Toto may be ingredients by now. Or words to that effect.
MG3
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Re: Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by MG3 »

Can't she go to her village and explain the situation and pay some money and get an ID and birth certificate?

I know they might demand an older family member vouch for her, and that may be problematic for her if she has none, but couldn't they demand that too if she claimed to be the dead girl?

Your post doesn't mention exhausting efforts to get an ID with her real name and birthdate; that is what i am hung up on here.
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jaynewcastle
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Re: Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by jaynewcastle »

Seems a bizarre way to avoid paperwork to me
Last edited by jaynewcastle on Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Freightdog
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Re: Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by Freightdog »

MG3 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:59 pm Can't she go to her village and explain the situation and pay some money and get an ID and birth certificate?

I know they might demand an older family member vouch for her, and that may be problematic for her if she has none, but couldn't they demand that too if she claimed to be the dead girl?

Your post doesn't mention exhausting efforts to get an ID with her real name and birthdate; that is what i am hung up on here.
There’s nothing to get hung up on, here. You’re right, we haven’t exhausted efforts, as firstly, I was party to the conversation this evening, and posted this evening, the outline of the situation, as part of the process of exhausting efforts, starting with me asking among expats who may have encountered similar over their time in Cambodia.

An example might be- signatures and statements of from persons in authority who know her and can vouch for her, blah blah. I don’t know, hence I’m asking.
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Freightdog
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Re: Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by Freightdog »

somebody, recently wrote: I’m sure there must be a better way around the issue, but would welcome knowledgeable input about what better procedures may exist.
She has no official ID, as it would appear applies to quite a lot of people in the province.
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Freightdog
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Re: Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by Freightdog »

jaynewcastle wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:52 pm Seems a bizarre way to avoid paperwork to me
What paperwork is she trying to avoid? I think you missed the point- she/they are contemplating this because they don’t know how to go about it, or don’t know that that there is a correct way to go about it.
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John Bingham
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Re: Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by John Bingham »

Assuming a dead person's identity was always a common way to create a fake identity. I'm surprised it still works these days with all the fantastic technology we have.
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jaynewcastle
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Re: Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by jaynewcastle »

Freightdog wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:19 pm
jaynewcastle wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:52 pm Seems a bizarre way to avoid paperwork to me
What paperwork is she trying to avoid? I think you missed the point- she/they are contemplating this because they don’t know how to go about it, or don’t know that that there is a correct way to go about it.
I don't know, was just going off what you said, you said "it would take half a tree of paperwork, which is why most people would rather lie"
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bolueeleh
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Re: Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by bolueeleh »

Freightdog wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:39 pm She’s in her early 20’s, has no surviving immediate blood relatives, and has no ID, birth certificate, or anything else.
recently i helped an orphan who grew up in a pagoda, he was from another province, he wondered into SHV, my staff pick him up and i offered him a job, he has no name even, only the nickname given to him by the monks in the pagoda, long story short, i helped him get his ID card, family book with some tea money, it is easier that way.
Money is not the problem, the problem is no money
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Freightdog
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Re: Recycling a deceased’s ID

Post by Freightdog »

jaynewcastle wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:38 pm
Freightdog wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:19 pm
jaynewcastle wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:52 pm Seems a bizarre way to avoid paperwork to me
What paperwork is she trying to avoid? I think you missed the point- she/they are contemplating this because they don’t know how to go about it, or don’t know that that there is a correct way to go about it.
I don't know, was just going off what you said, you said "it would take half a tree of paperwork, which is why most people would rather lie"
Me (what he actually wrote) wrote: This idea of reusing identities belonging to someone else is nothing new- I’ve encountered this in Asia, such as Bangladesh on a few occasions, before. However, there We’re other ways around problems like this, semi official; it usually required several rounds of baksheesh and half a tree of paperwork, which is why most people would simply lie. However, once in a while, the situation would come back to bite someone
In Bangladesh, frequently, and certainly up until about a decade ago, the first official document asserting someone’s date of birth might be their secondary certificate of education (attendance, not passing grade). Their ID would be based on this, as this might be the first official statement of the date of birth. Their passport would then be based on that certificate and their ID. The date of birth would be entered at the whim of the teacher. Whole classes (30+ students) might graduate secondary school with the same date of birth if their teacher filled out one form and photocopied it 30 times, instead of entering their date of birth individually.
I know this from personal experience with an ex- whose passport was 2 years, 7 months adrift of her real age. Not a problem if you’re only travelling with ASEAN or other similar states, but a clusterfuck if you apply for a visa to the USofA, and put your real DoB on the visa form, and back it up with an ID card and passport with totally different data.
Visa denied.


As JB says, it’s surprising that it still works. Actually, it doesnt really work, except in places where they’re not too stringent. It’s only about a decade since some countries like Bangladesh started issuing properly secure passports with data strips.
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