Canadian in Shanghai wondering about Cambodia

[loganhudak]

Hello all, I was hoping some expats living in Cambodia could spread some light on the business climate in Cambodia.


I have recently visited for New years and stayed for 10 days. I loved the weather, the locals were friendly, the food was good and overall had a great time. I've been in Shanghai working in events and advertising for over 3 years now, and I am looking to move on as things are getting pretty tough out here in China. Rather than moving to a less developed city here in China, I am considering moving to a new country all together.


With my extensive experience in the ad world, sales, and events I was wondering what sort of opportunities currently exist in Cambodia? What is the salary like for experienced university graduates? How safe is it to live there? How honest is business? What industries are flourishing? Any suggestions or warnings or stories would be greatly appreciated.

I would also love to know where to even start looking for employment over there.

Sorry for the long winded post, I look forward to your replies.

Cheers,

Logan

[ExPenhMan]

First of all, there's a ton of Canadians in Phnom Penh, Siem Reap and beyond. Yes, me too. But I'm not in business. I think you'd need to do more person to person research with Canucks, Aussies and Americans here. PP is a growing city. As for profit potential, I just don't know but business services are very undervalued, like in Thailand and Vietnam. BTW, Vietnam is another growth centre. Thailand, on the other hand, seems to be waning, with business operators abandoning the place because of the constant downward price pressure. I suggest more time on the ground here, talking with independent businessmen.

As for daily living, there's loads of forum threads on the other Cambodia expat web site, khmer440 as well as here.

[TheGrinchSR]

As with the whole world - if you can get hired by a multi-national while you are outside of Cambodia - there's money to be made. Otherwise, if you get a job on the ground you are likely to earn 3/5 of nothing. This is what "achieving" in Cambodia is often taken for - bringing in around $1,000 a month (because it's more than an average local earns - a lot more to be fair).

The trouble is that opportunities in Cambodia are minimal in most professions and near non-existent in sales and marketing. A friend of mine, who used to work in a top advertising agency in the US, went to an interview with one of Cambodia's biggest companies to find they wanted to pay their Head of Marketing around $500 a month... unsurprisingly they ended up hiring a local.

You could, however, consider putting your marketing and sales skills savvy to use online. You can make a very good living online if you have the skills and grit (turning up to work every day is much harder when work is in your living room and you have no boss to shout at you) to do so. Cambodia is great when you have a ton of cash to spend. It's much less great when you're always watching the wolves outside your $60 apartment's door...

If that doesn't appeal - there are plenty of low paid English teaching jobs to be had.

[Cam Nivag]

I think a lot of dudes who move to Cambodia claim to have expertise and experience in ads, sales, and events. The problem, as the above poster says, is that Khmers can and will do these jobs for $500 a month.

[frank lee bent]

$1500 is thought to be good money here.

You can get Poutine here.

[loganhudak]

I mean its sort of the same through out asia id say. Its definetly the same in China. I came here for a 3 month vacation as I was dating a Shanghainese girl and living on the opposite side of the country than I was from. I had just over $10k saved and wanted to leave my job, so I did. 3 months turned to 6 months, and 6 months to a year- then we got married and had a baby. After the first year of just exploring China I got a job on the ground here with a small expat owned events business. We did a lot of interesting work for big clients, but we were basically making close to what a local would make - 3/5 of nothing.

Now im with a bigger agency, making about double what I was, but its NOWHERE NEAR what people on expat packages are making, maybe 1/10 of it. So now I have a wife and child, but not making near as much bank as I was in Canada, but arguably living a better day to day life, albeit we aren't flush.

So thats my story for the past 3 years.

[TheGrinchSR]

I mean its sort of the same through out asia id say. Its definetly the same in China. I came here for a 3 month vacation as I was dating a Shanghainese girl and living on the opposite side of the country than I was from. I had just over $10k saved and wanted to leave my job, so I did. 3 months turned to 6 months, and 6 months to a year- then we got married and had a baby. After the first year of just exploring China I got a job on the ground here with a small expat owned events business. We did a lot of interesting work for big clients, but we were basically making close to what a local would make - 3/5 of nothing.

Now im with a bigger agency, making about double what I was, but its NOWHERE NEAR what people on expat packages are making, maybe 1/10 of it. So now I have a wife and child, but not making near as much bank as I was in Canada, but arguably living a better day to day life, albeit we aren't flush.

So thats my story for the past 3 years.

Your wife is likely to absolutely hate Cambodia if she's typically Chinese. Mine did. She was fine with Thailand and Vietnam but loathed Cambodia on sight. No idea why - she never really could explain it but all her Chinese friends I met felt the same way.

[Duncan]

I mean its sort of the same through out asia id say. Its definetly the same in China. I came here for a 3 month vacation as I was dating a Shanghainese girl and living on the opposite side of the country than I was from. I had just over $10k saved and wanted to leave my job, so I did. 3 months turned to 6 months, and 6 months to a year- then we got married and had a baby. After the first year of just exploring China I got a job on the ground here with a small expat owned events business. We did a lot of interesting work for big clients, but we were basically making close to what a local would make - 3/5 of nothing.

Now im with a bigger agency, making about double what I was, but its NOWHERE NEAR what people on expat packages are making, maybe 1/10 of it. So now I have a wife and child, but not making near as much bank as I was in Canada, but arguably living a better day to day life, albeit we aren't flush.

So thats my story for the past 3 years.

Your wife is likely to absolutely hate Cambodia if she's typically Chinese. Mine did. She was fine with Thailand and Vietnam but loathed Cambodia on sight. No idea why - she never really could explain it but all her Chinese friends I met felt the same way.

Strange that . One would think that with the thousands of Chinese already living here, the foods, customs etc. Perhaps they all hate Cambodia.

[TheGrinchSR]

I mean its sort of the same through out asia id say. Its definetly the same in China. I came here for a 3 month vacation as I was dating a Shanghainese girl and living on the opposite side of the country than I was from. I had just over $10k saved and wanted to leave my job, so I did. 3 months turned to 6 months, and 6 months to a year- then we got married and had a baby. After the first year of just exploring China I got a job on the ground here with a small expat owned events business. We did a lot of interesting work for big clients, but we were basically making close to what a local would make - 3/5 of nothing.

Now im with a bigger agency, making about double what I was, but its NOWHERE NEAR what people on expat packages are making, maybe 1/10 of it. So now I have a wife and child, but not making near as much bank as I was in Canada, but arguably living a better day to day life, albeit we aren't flush.

So thats my story for the past 3 years.

Your wife is likely to absolutely hate Cambodia if she's typically Chinese. Mine did. She was fine with Thailand and Vietnam but loathed Cambodia on sight. No idea why - she never really could explain it but all her Chinese friends I met felt the same way.

Strange that . One would think that with the thousands of Chinese already living here, the foods, customs etc. Perhaps they all hate Cambodia.

I figured that with a big Chinese community it wouldn't be a big leap either but she really did loathe the place as did her Chinese friends... *shrugs* It's up to them, isn't it really?

[qinjingyou]

I mean its sort of the same through out asia id say. Its definetly the same in China. I came here for a 3 month vacation as I was dating a Shanghainese girl and living on the opposite side of the country than I was from. I had just over $10k saved and wanted to leave my job, so I did. 3 months turned to 6 months, and 6 months to a year- then we got married and had a baby. After the first year of just exploring China I got a job on the ground here with a small expat owned events business. We did a lot of interesting work for big clients, but we were basically making close to what a local would make - 3/5 of nothing.

Now im with a bigger agency, making about double what I was, but its NOWHERE NEAR what people on expat packages are making, maybe 1/10 of it. So now I have a wife and child, but not making near as much bank as I was in Canada, but arguably living a better day to day life, albeit we aren't flush.

So thats my story for the past 3 years.

Your wife is likely to absolutely hate Cambodia if she's typically Chinese. Mine did. She was fine with Thailand and Vietnam but loathed Cambodia on sight. No idea why - she never really could explain it but all her Chinese friends I met felt the same way.

Strange that . One would think that with the thousands of Chinese already living here, the foods, customs etc. Perhaps they all hate Cambodia.

The mainlanders I've talked to don't seem to like it here all that much. Too poor, they say. The Taiwanese seem to look at being here as a way to make money, and the locals seem about as happy as anyone.
Mainland Chinese seem really touchy about poverty, probably because so many of them remember it personally.
About seven or eight years ago a group of coworkers, all PRC citizens, went to N. Korea on some kind of exchange program. Every one of them hated it there.