Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by Samouth » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:46 pm

who is that dopmoto, sound like someone's sock-puppet. BTW, Being a Cambodian, of course i am concerning about it. No doubt, i wouldn't want Unesco to recognize it as it was originated from Thailand. Everyone knew history know that it is originated from Cambodia. It was found even before Thailand became a country. Also, not to mention, it is true that Thailand stole our culture. If you are speaking to an educated Thai, she or he would agree on that.
បើសិនធ្វើចេះ ចេះឲ្យគេកោត បើសិនធ្វើឆោត ឆោតឲ្យគេអាណិត។

If you know a lot, know enough to make them respect you, if you are stupid, be stupid enough so they can pity you.
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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by willyhilly » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:17 am

When did Thailand become a country? This is like NZ and Australia arguing over the pavlova isn't it.
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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by Samouth » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:23 am

willyhilly wrote:When did Thailand become a country? This is like NZ and Australia arguing over the pavlova isn't it.
Thailand became a country in 13 century which was after the Angkor Wat was built. If they still claimed that Angkor Want is belong to them. I would ask them to STFU. If they didn't invade us when we became weak, they would never ever take over Angkor Wat. Kudos to French Colony though.
បើសិនធ្វើចេះ ចេះឲ្យគេកោត បើសិនធ្វើឆោត ឆោតឲ្យគេអាណិត។

If you know a lot, know enough to make them respect you, if you are stupid, be stupid enough so they can pity you.
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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by CEOCambodiaNews » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:30 am

Thailand’s Masked Dance Plans Lead to Online Outcry

by Phan Soumy | June 6, 2016

As nationalist fervor spread among social media users over plans by Thailand to list “khon” masked dance—seen by many as being a Cambodian tradition—on Unesco’s heritage list, Prime Minister HE stepped into the fray on Sunday.

In a post to his Facebook page, the prime minister offered his assurances that Cambodia was also working to have Lakhaon Kaol, the Cambodian equivalent, listed by Unesco.

“The [Culture] Ministry is planning to place Lakhaon Kaol on Unesco’s Intangible Cultural Heritage
  • , unlike what some Facebook users have said accusing the government of not paying attention,” he said.

    Ministry spokesman Thai Noraksathya said Cambodia had already begun preparing its paperwork, and had a leg up on Thailand, which is not yet a “state party” to the World Heritage Convention.

    continue reading......https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/thai ... ry-113524/
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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by dopmoto » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:42 am

Samouth wrote:who is that dopmoto, sound like someone's sock-puppet. BTW, Being a Cambodian, of course i am concerning about it. No doubt, i wouldn't want Unesco to recognize it as it was originated from Thailand. Everyone knew history know that it is originated from Cambodia. It was found even before Thailand became a country. Also, not to mention, it is true that Thailand stole our culture. If you are speaking to an educated Thai, she or he would agree on that.

samouth thai stole more cultures than you think.

the whole culture of thailand is just bits and pieces of other cultures.
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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by mushrooms » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:39 pm

dopmoto wrote:
Samouth wrote:who is that dopmoto, sound like someone's sock-puppet. BTW, Being a Cambodian, of course i am concerning about it. No doubt, i wouldn't want Unesco to recognize it as it was originated from Thailand. Everyone knew history know that it is originated from Cambodia. It was found even before Thailand became a country. Also, not to mention, it is true that Thailand stole our culture. If you are speaking to an educated Thai, she or he would agree on that.

samouth thai stole more cultures than you think.

the whole culture of thailand is just bits and pieces of other cultures.
We can say the same about Cambodian culture too. It's time for Cambodians to finally recognize that they owe a lot of their cultural richness to the Thais. Of course this will probably never happen because Cambodians think they created everything.

I am surprised that the Thais even want to associate with UNESCO now after they approved the Royal Ballet of Cambodia as a "unique" cultural heritage. Because the Thais know all along that RBoC is a hack, a poorer imitation of Thai dance (this is well researched and backed up by their academics and Japanese and a European). UNESCO probably allowed it because they thought, oh, poor Cambodia...
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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by Samouth » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:42 pm

mushrooms wrote:
dopmoto wrote:
Samouth wrote:who is that dopmoto, sound like someone's sock-puppet. BTW, Being a Cambodian, of course i am concerning about it. No doubt, i wouldn't want Unesco to recognize it as it was originated from Thailand. Everyone knew history know that it is originated from Cambodia. It was found even before Thailand became a country. Also, not to mention, it is true that Thailand stole our culture. If you are speaking to an educated Thai, she or he would agree on that.

samouth thai stole more cultures than you think.

the whole culture of thailand is just bits and pieces of other cultures.
We can say the same about Cambodian culture too. It's time for Cambodians to finally recognize that they owe a lot of their cultural richness to the Thais. Of course this will probably never happen because Cambodians think they created everything.

I am surprised that the Thais even want to associate with UNESCO now after they approved the Royal Ballet of Cambodia as a "unique" cultural heritage. Because the Thais know all along that RBoC is a hack, a poorer imitation of Thai dance (this is well researched and backed up by their academics and Japanese and a European). UNESCO probably allowed it because they thought, oh, poor Cambodia...
it would be great if you could write it a bit more precisely. I don't think i get you on this matter.
បើសិនធ្វើចេះ ចេះឲ្យគេកោត បើសិនធ្វើឆោត ឆោតឲ្យគេអាណិត។

If you know a lot, know enough to make them respect you, if you are stupid, be stupid enough so they can pity you.
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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by John Bingham » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:48 pm

A few late 19th century photos don't prove anything. The dance most likely originated here, was taken to Thailand, adapted and eventually returned in a changed form. The Cambodian and Thai courts were very close at various periods in the 17th-19th centuries and denying that there were influences going both ways is silly.
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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by mushrooms » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:02 pm

Samouth wrote:
mushrooms wrote:
dopmoto wrote:
Samouth wrote:who is that dopmoto, sound like someone's sock-puppet. BTW, Being a Cambodian, of course i am concerning about it. No doubt, i wouldn't want Unesco to recognize it as it was originated from Thailand. Everyone knew history know that it is originated from Cambodia. It was found even before Thailand became a country. Also, not to mention, it is true that Thailand stole our culture. If you are speaking to an educated Thai, she or he would agree on that.

samouth thai stole more cultures than you think.

the whole culture of thailand is just bits and pieces of other cultures.
We can say the same about Cambodian culture too. It's time for Cambodians to finally recognize that they owe a lot of their cultural richness to the Thais. Of course this will probably never happen because Cambodians think they created everything.

I am surprised that the Thais even want to associate with UNESCO now after they approved the Royal Ballet of Cambodia as a "unique" cultural heritage. Because the Thais know all along that RBoC is a hack, a poorer imitation of Thai dance (this is well researched and backed up by their academics and Japanese and a European). UNESCO probably allowed it because they thought, oh, poor Cambodia...
it would be great if you could write it a bit more precisely. I don't think i get you on this matter.

Let's look at music. Sin Sisamouth utilized a lot of of classical dance tunes in his songs. He based them on music he learned from being a singer in the royal ballet. The Royal Ballet of Cambodia uses music from 19th century compositions that are attributed to Thai authors. Some other ones that are not attributed are claimed to be from Ayuthaya period and appear to have been based on other cultures. Some are parodies of Chinese or Burmese tunes for example. As a nation, Cambodians did not have diplomatic or cultural relations with the Burmese, if anything, it would be rare. One famous tune that exists, what we call "Chao Dok" , is based of a Burmese tune. Other examples of Burmese tunes that work it's way into Cambodian culture via the Thai is a famous song called "Mak Theurng" about a couple in the market selling perfume and stuff. The name is not even Khmer.

This is just one facet of Cambodian culture which shows Thai influence. There are many, many, other examples that can be said.
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Re: Another Cambodia-Thailand's Cultural Matter Dispute

Post by phuketrichard » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:40 pm

Interesting opinion in the bangkok post yesterday;

Akarapong Khmamkook, an academic from the international college at Thammasat University said,
"both countries actually inherited the original performing art from India before modifying it to suit their own tastes, Both countries should open their minds and face the fact that culture can be transferred from place to place, can be modified and can die."
He stated , "It is immature to debate who owns the ancient art" :thumb:
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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