Guns don't kill people rappers do.

Sailorman wrote:TheGrinchSR: the COLONISTS kicked the Brits out of America. By the time they did that, they considered themselves as AMERICANS, not Brits.

Interesting parallels between the French support of the colonists and the American support of Britain and allies in WW11. Many Americans like to think it was they alone that won the war of independence, and deny the importance of France in the same way many Brits like to down play American involvement in WW11. American supplies were vital in keeping Britain "afloat" in the same way French support to the colonists were were key to their success.

"From beginning to end, France supported the Americans in their struggle for independence. In the early stages of fighting, assistance came from idealistic young officers such as Gilbert du Motier, marquis de La Fayette (1757-1834), who volunteered his military expertise to help train and lead the Continental Army. Under the guise of neutrality, the French Crown secretly provided arms, uniforms, and other supplies.

When the British defeat at Saratoga in 1777 presented the prospect of American success, however, France began to openly support the rebellion. In 1778 France formally recognized the colonists in the Treaties of Amity and Commerce, negotiated by Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790),

In no other battle was French military assistance more decisive than in the 1781 Battle of Yorktown. Conceived by French General Jean-Baptiste Donatien de Vimeur, comte de Rochambeau (1725-1807) and General George Washington (1732-1799), the Yorktown campaign involved a combined overland and naval assault on the British troops led by General Charles Cornwallis (1738-1805). Having landed five battalions of infantry and artillery at Rhode Island the year before, Rochambeau and several thousand of his troops joined Washington’s Continental Army in Virginia. By mid-September French naval forces from the West Indies, under the command of Admiral François Joseph Paul de Grasse (1722-1788), and Continental forces under General La Fayette, had trapped Cornwallis on the Yorktown peninsula.

With the arrival of Washington’s forces on September 28, the Franco-American force laid siege until the British surrender of October 19, 1781. The capture of Yorktown gave the Continental Army control of the Chesapeake and forced the British to enter the peace negotiations that led to British recognition of American independence."

Sailorman wrote: England had almost no strategic materials and depended on the US and Canada and was carried in American ships.

If America would have stayed on the sidelines and not sent it merchant ships to supple England (even before our getting into the war) all the Germans had to do was rain death and destruction down on the English cities and it would have been over in no time.

Similarly the colonists had comparatively little in the way of military materials and could not have succeeded without the French. supplies.
At first, French support was covert; French agents sent the Patriots military aid (predominantly gunpowder) through a company called Rodrigue Hortalez et Compagnie, beginning in the spring of 1776. Estimates place the percentage of French supplied arms to the Americans in the Saratoga campaign up to 90%.[4] By 1777, over five million livres of aid had been sent to the American rebels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in ... ionary_War

In 1776, Latouche Tréville transferred ammunition from France to the United States of America. Numerous French supplies as well as guns of the de Valliere type were used in the American War of Independence, especially the smaller 4-pounder field guns. The guns were shipped from France, and the field carriages provided for in the US. These guns played an important role in such battles as the Battle of Saratoga,[5] and the Siege of Yorktown. George Washington wrote about the supplies and guns in a letter to General Heath on 2 May 1777:

"I was this morning favored with yours containing the pleasing accounts of the late arrivals at Portsmouth and Boston. That of the French ships of war, with artillery and other military stores, is most valuable. It is my intent to have all the arms that were not immediately wanted by the Eastern States, to be removed to Springfield, as a much safer place than Portsmouth …. I shall also write Congress and press the immediate removal of the artillery, and other military stores from Portsmouth. I would also have you forward the twenty-five chests of arms lately arrived from Martinico to Springfield."
— George Washington letter to General Heath, 2 May 1777.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-American_alliance

Sailorman wrote:If America would have stayed on the sidelines and not sent it merchant ships to supple England (even before our getting into the war) all the Germans had to do was rain death and destruction down on the English cities and it would have been over in no time.

My kid could tell you that no, they could not rain down death and destruction, simply because the RAF had already beaten the Luftwaffe by the end of 1942.

It was called The Battle of Britain, you may have heard of it.

It was one of the major turning points of the war, where were you guys?

The west has been brainwashed into thanking only you guys, when in effect without Russian involvement it would have dragged on for another 10 years, maybe.

Try and read more.

Well my simple question still no answered...if u.s civilians dont have arms.....who does?

my dad was on the archangel run resupplying the russians in the early days of the war, later he was on the d-day landings, north africa and italy running the engines on LST's.
The war was a joint effort- anyone of the countries you care to name relied upon the others= the outcome would have been very different without any one of them.

^^ That's why they were called 'allies'.

vladimir wrote:

Sailorman wrote:If America would have stayed on the sidelines and not sent it merchant ships to supple England (even before our getting into the war) all the Germans had to do was rain death and destruction down on the English cities and it would have been over in no time.

My kid could tell you that no, they could not rain down death and destruction, simply because the RAF had already beaten the Luftwaffe by the end of 1942.

It was called The Battle of Britain, you may have heard of it.

It was one of the major turning points of the war, where were you guys?

The west has been brainwashed into thanking only you guys, when in effect without Russian involvement it would have dragged on for another 10 years, maybe.

Try and read more.

Yep the Russians due to western education/media, dont get enough praise for their involvement of the war, i mean it was them that raised the red flag over the Reichstag building in Berlin...

Vlad, The battle of Britain was only won because Hitler was pissed off that the Brits bombed Berlin. He directed the airforce to bomb London and not the airfields/radar sites. If Germany would have had a better leader, the Brits would be speaking German (maybe not a bad thing?) Without the airfields and radar sights the Brit airforce was finished. Without American merchant mariners risking their lives (even before 12/07/41), without American ship yards to replace what the Uboats sunk and without American factories, England was finished. It made a big difference when the Idiot Hitler attacked Russia. Any good war leader would have bombed the Brit airfields/radar sites then bombed the factories, then bombed the Brit capitol ships in their moorings, then and only then invasion or leave England to starve by blockading the seas. Then and only then a good leader that wanted to attack Russia would have winterized his mechanized army, set up refueling depots, bombed Moscow and other cities to dust. Also the idiot Hitler didn't direct his fine aircraft industry to build a 4-engine long range bomber (big mistake) and he turned the ME-262 jet fighter into a bomber (really dumb.)

Yes, without the help of the French (navy) the new nation of America could not have trapped the Brit army once and for all and kicked the rif-raf out of our new country, but the French didn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts as they have been at war with England for centuries. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

BTW/ Russian was "allowed" to enter Berlin first. American troops had orders to set on their thumbs while Russian troops walked into Berlin. This really pissed Patton off and rightly so.