xandreu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:22 pm I think that as westerners, we sometimes place too much emphasis on democracy and we fail to understand that, let's say, different types of democrocies work better for different types of countries.

You only have to look at the state of American politics since Trump arrived on the scene, or British politics ever since Brexit, to know that we have lost the torch-bearer status of democrocy that we once held around the world. You might say that countries where there is only one party which is guaranteed to win every election by whatever means possible is a negative thing, and doesn't truly represent the will of the people, but let's face it, in most 'first-past-the-post' electoral systems like the US and the UK, we only have one more choice than those countries anyway.

In the UK, only the Conservatives or Labour ever win elections. Yes we have smaller parties, but because of the way the system works, they don't have a hope in hell of ever gaining power. The same goes for the US. Only the Democrats or the Republicans will ever win an election. Can we honestly put our hands on our hearts and say that these systems truly represent the will of the people?

It's not so much how governments gain their power, it's what they do with that power that counts. Since the fall of the Khmer Rouge, the CPP (and it's former names) have offered Cambodia a level of political stability that took a while to take hold, but now that it has, foreign investors largely see Cambodia as a pretty safe bet when it comes to investing here, which is transforming the Cambodian economy in ways Cambodia could not do on its own.

But more importantly, is the way autocratic governments treat their citizens. Of course, a lot more can be done to solve the poverty issues here, as well as social services, healthcare and state education, all of which are serious issues which I'm not simply brushing under the carpet, but people generally aren't fearful of their government, so long as they don't cross certain lines, namely being too critical of them publicly.

The government don't seem to have any interest in exerting unnecessary control over it's people. Citizens aren't routinely stopped in the streets and asked for their papers, or treated with suspicion. The government don't seem to give two hoots about what people do, where they go, who their friends are, where that large questionable bank deposit came from. Despite the odd rogue police officer, (which you get in any country) the police aren't known for being overtly corrupt on a day-to-day basis. I'm talking about things like 'discovering' a bag of drugs in your car which leaves you with the option of paying the corrupt officer a large bribe or facing some jail time. From what I hear from the Khmer friends I know and have known, the police have a pretty good reputation here, which is more than can be said for my country.

People often ask me why I choose to live in Cambodia, and whilst the honest answer is that there is no one single answer, one of the main reasons is that I feel a hell of a lot freer in Cambodia than I do back home. I don't feel like the government is breathing down my neck all the time, either wanting my money, or wanting to know what I'm doing with my money. I'm not constantly tracked and spied on by CCTV every time I set foot out of my door. I feel free to do whatever I like, whenever I like and with whom I like, within laws that I feel are generally reasonable, not repressive and don't infringe on my freedoms, so long as I use some common sense when speaking about the government publicly, which to me, is a pretty good trade off.

Democracy is not all it's cracked up to be. I'm much more concerned with political stability, reasonably low crime rates, especially when it comes to serious crime, a sense of freedom, nobody abusing my human rights, and the right to go about my own business without having to explain myself at each and every step.

Cambodia pretty much ticks those boxes for me. So to be honest, I couldn't care less how those in power got there.

xandreu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:22 pm I think that as westerners, we sometimes place too much emphasis on democracy and we fail to understand that...

It's not so much how governments gain their power, it's what they do with that power that counts.

...free to do whatever I like, whenever I like and with whom I like, within laws that I feel are generally reasonable, not repressive and don't infringe on my freedoms...

xandreu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:22 pm
Democracy is not all it's cracked up to be. I'm much more concerned with political stability, reasonably low crime rates, especially when it comes to serious crime, a sense of freedom, nobody abusing my human rights, and the right to go about my own business without having to explain myself at each and every step.

orichá wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:56 am

xandreu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:22 pm I think that as westerners, we sometimes place too much emphasis on democracy and we fail to understand that...

It's not so much how governments gain their power, it's what they do with that power that counts.

...free to do whatever I like, whenever I like and with whom I like, within laws that I feel are generally reasonable, not repressive and don't infringe on my freedoms...

Uhhm, you are not aware that the family has accumulated 3 to 4 billions in riches courtesy of the average poor Cambodian?

And as to your sense of "freedom" here in Cambodia. Is it REAL? Or, is it based merely on your extraordinary wealth compared to the locals? Seriously, how does your sense of freedom compare to the "freedom" of actual ordinary citizens of a nation which does not tolerate any public general strike for better wages or land justice or any form of free speech or criticism, etc, etc, etc ...?

Generals and dictators from Myanmar to Thailand to Vietnam and China are "free" to deposit large fortunes in the pure-minded banks of incorruptible Singapore, and rich Arabs and Japanese art collectors -- anyone -- can freely deposit their treasures -- gold bars, diamonds, Picassos -- in a commercially operated private vault underground right beside Changi International Airport in Singapore, too. No questions asked ...

That's freedom in Asia. It belongs exclusively to the rich. That means you too, bro!

xandreu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:22 pm I think that as westerners, we sometimes place too much emphasis on democracy and we fail to understand that, let's say, different types of democrocies work better for different types of countries.

orichá wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:56 amUhhm, you are not aware that the family has accumulated 3 to 4 billions in riches courtesy of the average poor Cambodian?

And as to your sense of "freedom" here in Cambodia. Is it REAL?

Or, is it based merely on your extraordinary wealth compared to the locals? Seriously, how does your sense of freedom compare to the "freedom" of actual ordinary citizens of a nation which does not tolerate any public general strike for better wages or land justice or any form of free speech or criticism, etc, etc, etc ...?

Generals and dictators from Myanmar to Thailand to Vietnam and China are "free" to deposit large fortunes in the pure-minded banks of incorruptible Singapore, and rich Arabs and Japanese art collectors -- anyone -- can freely deposit their treasures -- gold bars, diamonds, Picassos -- in a commercially operated private vault underground right beside Changi International Airport in Singapore, too. No questions asked ...

That's freedom in Asia. It belongs exclusively to the rich. That means you too, bro!

xandreu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:22 pm I think that as westerners, we sometimes place too much emphasis on democracy and we fail to understand that, let's say, different types of democrocies work better for different types of countries.

You only have to look at the state of American politics since Trump arrived on the scene, or British politics ever since Brexit, to know that we have lost the torch-bearer status of democrocy that we once held around the world. You might say that countries where there is only one party which is guaranteed to win every election by whatever means possible is a negative thing, and doesn't truly represent the will of the people, but let's face it, in most 'first-past-the-post' electoral systems like the US and the UK, we only have one more choice than those countries anyway.

In the UK, only the Conservatives or Labour ever win elections. Yes we have smaller parties, but because of the way the system works, they don't have a hope in hell of ever gaining power. The same goes for the US. Only the Democrats or the Republicans will ever win an election. Can we honestly put our hands on our hearts and say that these systems truly represent the will of the people?

It's not so much how governments gain their power, it's what they do with that power that counts. Since the fall of the Khmer Rouge, the CPP (and it's former names) have offered Cambodia a level of political stability that took a while to take hold, but now that it has, foreign investors largely see Cambodia as a pretty safe bet when it comes to investing here, which is transforming the Cambodian economy in ways Cambodia could not do on its own.

But more importantly, is the way autocratic governments treat their citizens. Of course, a lot more can be done to solve the poverty issues here, as well as social services, healthcare and state education, all of which are serious issues which I'm not simply brushing under the carpet, but people generally aren't fearful of their government, so long as they don't cross certain lines, namely being too critical of them publicly.

The government don't seem to have any interest in exerting unnecessary control over it's people. Citizens aren't routinely stopped in the streets and asked for their papers, or treated with suspicion. The government don't seem to give two hoots about what people do, where they go, who their friends are, where that large questionable bank deposit came from. Despite the odd rogue police officer, (which you get in any country) the police aren't known for being overtly corrupt on a day-to-day basis. I'm talking about things like 'discovering' a bag of drugs in your car which leaves you with the option of paying the corrupt officer a large bribe or facing some jail time. From what I hear from the Khmer friends I know and have known, the police have a pretty good reputation here, which is more than can be said for my country.

People often ask me why I choose to live in Cambodia, and whilst the honest answer is that there is no one single answer, one of the main reasons is that I feel a hell of a lot freer in Cambodia than I do back home. I don't feel like the government is breathing down my neck all the time, either wanting my money, or wanting to know what I'm doing with my money. I'm not constantly tracked and spied on by CCTV every time I set foot out of my door. I feel free to do whatever I like, whenever I like and with whom I like, within laws that I feel are generally reasonable, not repressive and don't infringe on my freedoms, so long as I use some common sense when speaking about the government publicly, which to me, is a pretty good trade off.

Democracy is not all it's cracked up to be. I'm much more concerned with political stability, reasonably low crime rates, especially when it comes to serious crime, a sense of freedom, nobody abusing my human rights, and the right to go about my own business without having to explain myself at each and every step.

Cambodia pretty much ticks those boxes for me. So to be honest, I couldn't care less how those in power got there.

xandreu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:39 am

orichá wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:56 am

xandreu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:22 pm I think that as westerners, we sometimes place too much emphasis on democracy and we fail to understand that...

It's not so much how governments gain their power, it's what they do with that power that counts.

...free to do whatever I like, whenever I like and with whom I like, within laws that I feel are generally reasonable, not repressive and don't infringe on my freedoms...

Uhhm, you are not aware that the family has accumulated ...

My entire post was written from a very subjective point of view, as I assumed was obvious from the outset. Of course I'm aware of the political issues that continue to plague Cambodia, I haven't lived under a rock in all the time I've been here. I was going to end my post with something along the lines of "of course I'm aware that I'm speaking from my very priveledged position as a relatively well-off foreigner living in a country that has huge issues with poverty and corruption", but I decided against it as I thought that much would be obvious, and didn't need to be said.

As someone who isn't particularly politically active, I was speaking purely from my own personal, day-to-day experience of living in Cambodia and how it differs from my own, personal, subjective experience of living day-to-day in my own country. I don't deny that a Khmer would have written something entirely different given the same topic, but I'm not Khmer and can only speak of my own personal experiences.

Perhaps I should have stated the obvious after all, as it clearly wasn't as obvious as I assumed.

LamarFreddie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:47 pm SiemReapLOL's comment about the king was funny.