mi1 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:12 pm

Buying a condo now as an investment is a bad idea. However, if someone plans to stay here long-term and really wants their apartment to feel like a home, it's very challenging with rental places. As someone who recently bought one, I can customize it as I want - with furniture, decorations, smart devices, and every little detail that I wouldn't do in a rental place.

I would say now it is time to buy also for investment (if planning to invest in Cambodian property that is). As you say, there are distressed sellers selling with good discounts. And then renovate and furnish it well. There is still high rents achievable when unit is in good location, and it's well designed & furnished and it's marketed well. These types units are still rented within weeks.

Doc67 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:49 am

Alex wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:50 am

Earl of Mercia wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:36 am

Alex wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:02 pm

Earl of Mercia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:28 pm

But you still own an appreciating asset as I said before it looks like a good deal to me.

How do you know that a condo unit in Phnom Penh - or this particular condo unit in Phnom Penh - is and will continue to be an appreciating asset?

From what I've seen, I have my doubts. I'd rather rent in Phnom Penh and invest elsewhere.

Because I’m an International Financial Adviser how about you,how do you know it isn’t please qualify your credentials?

You're a financial advisor who cannot even spell "advisor" and you're asking ME for my credentials? Take a hike.

While I don't trust self-proclaimed experts on anonymous internet forums, which has served me very well, I know that I can trust my own eyes. I've stayed at several "high-end" condos that were already starting to fall apart a few short years after construction and are lacking some features that would be considered essentials elsewhere. That many condos are ghost towns (including the one we're discussing here, by the OP's own account) doesn't exactly instill me with confidence either.

He hasn't even factored in the opportunity cost of tying up $50k in a PP Condo. Such as putting your $50k in Prasac @ 8%, which yields $4000pa, which after 6% tax, pays out ~$313 per month, every month, on the dot.

If Prasac is too risky for you (yet a PP condo isn't?) then you can ~4/5% in USD in one of the big banks in Singapore.

How do you live at Prasac? I thought the adviser was talking about living in unit himself. Are you able to rent your "dream" apartment with $313 / month in Phnom penh?

Anyways 4%-5% in Cambodian rental market is considered very weak. It should be minimium of 10% really. In most cases you are looking 12%-15%.

rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:19 pm

Anyways 4%-5% in Cambodian rental market is considered very weak. It should be minimium of 10% really. In most cases you are looking 12%-15%.

Would you rent the condo on offer in this thread for 417$ per month?

Because that's what you should earn per month to make a gross 10% yield on a yearly basis if there were no costs and no taxes involved with renting it out. In reality the yield is taxed 20% and you will have some maintenance costs and administration costs so let's up the price 25% to cover for those. Not even talking about non-let units..... That would make a monthly rental price of 521$ to make a 10% yield on this condo. For a 15% yield the monthly rent would be well over 700$.

Would you rent the condo on offer in this thread for 521$ per month?

I don't think you will be able to rent it out for those prices and make 10% anytime in the next decade unless you bought the unit for 25-30k.

Element6 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:15 pm This is about $12.3k per buyback, which I first thought was low. However, on an $80k house with 50% remaining to pay, it represents a 78% valuation, which is very generous (very speculative calculations, I know)
If you can get 50% of your house value back after a repossession, I think you are doing very well.

Not in this case though. Some developers in Cambodia promise to customers that it's no risk and "Developer is obligated to buy back property for the same price during first 5 years on the buyer request". It's actually not so rare in Cambodia to have that in contract. From what i understood from news above is that despite having that point in contract developer refused to do so when customers asked about it because..
“If the company complies will follow contract it will go bankrupt because the company is also in debt to the bank. If the company goes bankrupt, it will seriously affect all customers.
“So, I am urging customers to accept the latest terms and we do not intend to continue addressing any issues beyond the stated conditions,”

armchairlawyer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:39 pm

rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:19 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:49 am

Alex wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:50 am

Earl of Mercia wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:36 am

Because I’m an International Financial Adviser how about you,how do you know it isn’t please qualify your credentials?

You're a financial advisor who cannot even spell "advisor" and you're asking ME for my credentials? Take a hike.

While I don't trust self-proclaimed experts on anonymous internet forums, which has served me very well, I know that I can trust my own eyes. I've stayed at several "high-end" condos that were already starting to fall apart a few short years after construction and are lacking some features that would be considered essentials elsewhere. That many condos are ghost towns (including the one we're discussing here, by the OP's own account) doesn't exactly instill me with confidence either.

He hasn't even factored in the opportunity cost of tying up $50k in a PP Condo. Such as putting your $50k in Prasac @ 8%, which yields $4000pa, which after 6% tax, pays out ~$313 per month, every month, on the dot.

If Prasac is too risky for you (yet a PP condo isn't?) then you can ~4/5% in USD in one of the big banks in Singapore.

How do you live at Prasac? I thought the adviser was talking about living in unit himself. Are you able to rent your "dream" apartment with $313 / month in Phnom penh?

Anyways 4%-5% in Cambodian rental market is considered very weak. It should be minimium of 10% really. In most cases you are looking 12%-15%.

Doc was correctly saying that you need to take account of what that 50k can earn you if you don't use it to buy a condo.

Are you suggesting that the rental yield on a condo is 12-15%?
Lets look at that. The 50k condo for sale here is a studio, not much bigger than a hotel room. In that location you mighht get 250 if you are lucky. That is 2500 per year (allowing two months for voids). That is a 5% gross yield. The yield net of expenses and repairs and refurbs would be about 3%. That's assuming you can let it at all (remember the seller said most of the units were vacant).

In fact it is the very fact that real estate values in Cambodia are not supported by yields that makes them so vulnerable to a collapse. RE has been used as a store of value. Once the hope of a capital gain is gone, there is no floor for values.

Didn't talk about this condo particularly when referring 12%-15% rental yield. There is not enough info on this, for example where exactly it is located, what is the layout etc. But most likely this is better for own stay than rental. But units in central location can do easily 10%-15% in Phnom Penh. And hardly any vacancy with those units.

Kammekor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:55 pm

rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:19 pm

Anyways 4%-5% in Cambodian rental market is considered very weak. It should be minimium of 10% really. In most cases you are looking 12%-15%.

Would you rent the condo on offer in this thread for 417$ per month?

Because that's what you should earn per month to make a gross 10% yield on a yearly basis if there were no costs and no taxes involved with renting it out. In reality the yield is taxed 20% and you will have some maintenance costs and administration costs so let's up the price 25% to cover for those. Not even talking about non-let units..... That would make a monthly rental price of 521$ to make a 10% yield on this condo. For a 15% yield the monthly rent would be well over 700$.

Would you rent the condo on offer in this thread for 521$ per month?

I don't think you will be able to rent it out for those prices and make 10% anytime in the next decade unless you bought the unit for 25-30k.

Tax for rentals is 14% for foreigners and 10% for locals. Capital gains tax (20%) you pay if you sell your unit and get profit from it.

Might not get 12%-15% yeilds for this unit. This unit is most likely better for own stay. But there is not enough info about this particular apartment to know the numbers. You are just guessing now as I'm pretty sure you don't really have much info about it either.

Every building has empty units. Why? Multiple reasons, one being the rental ads are like this property ad. Totally shit. No one will rent or even contact the owner. Other reason is that some people are parking their money in properties and they don't even try to rent it out. It's not necessarily that there is no demand for the units.

rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:06 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:55 pm

rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:19 pm

Anyways 4%-5% in Cambodian rental market is considered very weak. It should be minimium of 10% really. In most cases you are looking 12%-15%.

Would you rent the condo on offer in this thread for 417$ per month?

Because that's what you should earn per month to make a gross 10% yield on a yearly basis if there were no costs and no taxes involved with renting it out. In reality the yield is taxed 20% and you will have some maintenance costs and administration costs so let's up the price 25% to cover for those. Not even talking about non-let units..... That would make a monthly rental price of 521$ to make a 10% yield on this condo. For a 15% yield the monthly rent would be well over 700$.

Would you rent the condo on offer in this thread for 521$ per month?

I don't think you will be able to rent it out for those prices and make 10% anytime in the next decade unless you bought the unit for 25-30k.

Not talking about this condo. This unit is most likely better for own stay. But there is not enough info about this particular apartment to know the numbers. You are just guessing now as I'm pretty sure you don't really have much info about it either.

Of course we don't know the numbers. This place could be rented out for 200$ a month, maybe 300$, who knows? But I am not guessing that much. I don't believe a less than 50 sqm one bedroom apartment will rent out for over 500$ a month in that area of Phnom Penh. I expect that without knowing the real numbers. Don't forget, if this really was the bargain of the century, why would it be nearly empty?

Anyway, you were talking about 'Cambodian rental markets'. I quote:

rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:19 pm Anyways 4%-5% in Cambodian rental market is considered very weak. It should be minimium of 10% really. In most cases you are looking 12%-15%.

Of course that's a general statement, but you made it in this thread.

Kammekor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:21 pm

rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:06 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:55 pm

rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:19 pm

Anyways 4%-5% in Cambodian rental market is considered very weak. It should be minimium of 10% really. In most cases you are looking 12%-15%.

Would you rent the condo on offer in this thread for 417$ per month?

Because that's what you should earn per month to make a gross 10% yield on a yearly basis if there were no costs and no taxes involved with renting it out. In reality the yield is taxed 20% and you will have some maintenance costs and administration costs so let's up the price 25% to cover for those. Not even talking about non-let units..... That would make a monthly rental price of 521$ to make a 10% yield on this condo. For a 15% yield the monthly rent would be well over 700$.

Would you rent the condo on offer in this thread for 521$ per month?

I don't think you will be able to rent it out for those prices and make 10% anytime in the next decade unless you bought the unit for 25-30k.

Not talking about this condo. This unit is most likely better for own stay. But there is not enough info about this particular apartment to know the numbers. You are just guessing now as I'm pretty sure you don't really have much info about it either.

Of course we don't know the numbers. This place could be rented out for 200$ a month, maybe 300$, who knows? But I am not guessing that much. I don't believe a less than 50 sqm one bedroom apartment will rent out for over 500$ a month in that area of Phnom Penh. I expect that without knowing the real numbers. Don't forget, if this really was the bargain of the century, why would it be nearly empty?

Anyway, you were talking about 'Cambodian rental markets'. I quote:

rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:19 pm Anyways 4%-5% in Cambodian rental market is considered very weak. It should be minimium of 10% really. In most cases you are looking 12%-15%.

Of course that's a general statement, but you made it in this thread.

Yes, and those numbers are still valid. Me and few of my friends who have done some investments in this country are making those 12%-15% yields. This particular unit might be overpriced. Or it's not just suitable for rental. I don't know as there is no information really about it. But still it might be great deal for someone who is planning to live 20 years in Phnom Penh. There is a thread on this forum where users complain how shit rental units in Cambodia are or how expensive they are. Well here you can buy with modest price, make a bit of renovation and furnish the way you want. If you live in the unit that is to your liking for 20 years, I would say this is great deal. Again we come to that if you put the 50k to Prasac but then you don't find anythign suitable apartment under $500. What you do then? Go live in the nearest Prasac branch with you money?

Alex wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:50 am

Earl of Mercia wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:36 am

Alex wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:02 pm

Earl of Mercia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:28 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:12 pm

50k today isn't the same as 100 consecutive months of spending 500$ a month.

Add to that the kind of title (if any) is still unknown and management & utility prices are unknown as well.

But you still own an appreciating asset as I said before it looks like a good deal to me.

How do you know that a condo unit in Phnom Penh - or this particular condo unit in Phnom Penh - is and will continue to be an appreciating asset?

From what I've seen, I have my doubts. I'd rather rent in Phnom Penh and invest elsewhere.

Because I’m an International Financial Adviser how about you,how do you know it isn’t please qualify your credentials?

You're a financial advisor who cannot even spell "advisor" and you're asking ME for my credentials? Take a hike.

While I don't trust self-proclaimed experts on anonymous internet forums, which has served me very well, I know that I can trust my own eyes. I've stayed at several "high-end" condos that were already starting to fall apart a few short years after construction and are lacking some features that would be considered essentials elsewhere. That many condos are ghost towns (including the one we're discussing here, by the OP's own account) doesn't exactly instill me with confidence either.

Adviser is English from the land that invented it,I also know how to spell valour,colour etc.

You are just another potless expat renting a dive bedsit with his paltry pension,lashing out at someone with the financial nous to actually own a property in Cambodia something that you will never do!