Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
So i was spurred to do a little digging and found this. The guy makes a lot of sense, it would seem Vietnam probably has nothing to do with it.John Bingham wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:40 pm I don't believe it is Vietnamese, although it's possible they make it in the delta area. I've had it cooked in a Khmer family home, but it's only made for special occasions.
Origin of Cambodian Fish Amok Trei ● Thai Hor Mok ● Lao Mok Pa ● Malay Otak Otak
The origin of amok trei, hor mok pla, mok pa and otak otak is uncertain and contested. Some believe it was created in the Khmer empire (802 - 1431) palace kitchen and spread to the Ayuthaya empire (1351 - 1767) palace. Others believe it spread in the opposite direction i.e. from Ayuthaya to Khmer. Similarly, some believe amok trei / hor mok pla travelled from mainland Southeast Asia to the Malay archipelago. Then, there are theories that Chinese traders brought the dish to Palembang during the Dutch colonial era.
We can look at clues from the history of Southeast Asia, from the ebb and flow of empires for possible theories of how the fish amok might have flowed in the river of time. I have only questions for which we can use to explore and hopefully find the answers to the origin of fish amok.
Jayavarman II (770 - 850) is widely regarded as the king who founded the Khmer empire (802 - 1431). Jayavarman II lived in Java for a while during the Javanese Sailendra dynasty (750 - 850).
Jayavarman II returned to Cambodia and founded the Khmer empire in 802. One could suggest that Jayavarman II brought otak otak back to Cambodia. By this theory, Malay / Javanese otak otak became amok trei in the Khmer empire.
The Siamese Ayuthaya empire was founded in 1351, carved from the once mighty Khmer empire during its nadir. The Laotian Lan Xang empire was similarly founded in 1353 i.e. at around the same time as the Ayuthaya empire.
Might it not be that the Thai hor mok and Laotian mok pa have their roots from Khmer amok trei which in turn possibly came from Malay / Javanese otak otak?
https://johorkaki.blogspot.com/2023/06/ ... -thai.html
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Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
my video posted covers this even with more infodown_time wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:07 pmSo i was spurred to do a little digging and found this. The guy makes a lot of sense, it would seem Vietnam probably has nothing to do with it.John Bingham wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:40 pm I don't believe it is Vietnamese, although it's possible they make it in the delta area. I've had it cooked in a Khmer family home, but it's only made for special occasions.
Origin of Cambodian Fish Amok Trei ● Thai Hor Mok ● Lao Mok Pa ● Malay Otak Otak
The origin of amok trei, hor mok pla, mok pa and otak otak is uncertain and contested. Some believe it was created in the Khmer empire (802 - 1431) palace kitchen and spread to the Ayuthaya empire (1351 - 1767) palace. Others believe it spread in the opposite direction i.e. from Ayuthaya to Khmer. Similarly, some believe amok trei / hor mok pla travelled from mainland Southeast Asia to the Malay archipelago. Then, there are theories that Chinese traders brought the dish to Palembang during the Dutch colonial era.
We can look at clues from the history of Southeast Asia, from the ebb and flow of empires for possible theories of how the fish amok might have flowed in the river of time. I have only questions for which we can use to explore and hopefully find the answers to the origin of fish amok.
Jayavarman II (770 - 850) is widely regarded as the king who founded the Khmer empire (802 - 1431). Jayavarman II lived in Java for a while during the Javanese Sailendra dynasty (750 - 850).
Jayavarman II returned to Cambodia and founded the Khmer empire in 802. One could suggest that Jayavarman II brought otak otak back to Cambodia. By this theory, Malay / Javanese otak otak became amok trei in the Khmer empire.
The Siamese Ayuthaya empire was founded in 1351, carved from the once mighty Khmer empire during its nadir. The Laotian Lan Xang empire was similarly founded in 1353 i.e. at around the same time as the Ayuthaya empire.
Might it not be that the Thai hor mok and Laotian mok pa have their roots from Khmer amok trei which in turn possibly came from Malay / Javanese otak otak?
https://johorkaki.blogspot.com/2023/06/ ... -thai.html
amok is the national dish of Cambodia
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
All Cambodians I know are more defensive about insulting their food than insulting their king; it is a silly official response to our eyes, but definitely not as stupid as people demanding apologies for using the wrong pronouns and all that crap. Storm in a rice bowl.
Meum est propositum in taberna mori,
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
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Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
I do like Amok. The other half hates it. I’m surprised that it’s so mild, though. But then, I’ve only eaten it in a few locations.
I like quite spicy food. The other half quite often is way behind.
I once had Amok up at Oudong, (from the market below the stairway to burning knee hell) as a lunch option. I was nursing lacerated gums for days- why does so much of Asia have a problem separating bone from flesh? Bangladesh was the same. It’s like a Japanese extreme game show for the palate.
Filleting fish is something best done with a hammer.
The ministry of tourism really needs to invest in some humour, though. It takes itself far too seriously. If they really want to take such a stance, one thing that they could invest in is some food preparation and handling training.
Needle bone impaling, boot leather beef and shattered bone shards tend to moderate one’s appetite. Some ingredients just seem to have been tenderised with a truck.
While there’s a reasonable amount of competent food, the neighbours to the West set a fairly high bar. A bar that a lack of pride in one’s work and profession (arguably a common trait in the kingdom), will make it rather hard to meet.
There’s a lot of Khmer food that just doesn’t interest me, though I have given it a try.
I like quite spicy food. The other half quite often is way behind.
I once had Amok up at Oudong, (from the market below the stairway to burning knee hell) as a lunch option. I was nursing lacerated gums for days- why does so much of Asia have a problem separating bone from flesh? Bangladesh was the same. It’s like a Japanese extreme game show for the palate.
Filleting fish is something best done with a hammer.
The ministry of tourism really needs to invest in some humour, though. It takes itself far too seriously. If they really want to take such a stance, one thing that they could invest in is some food preparation and handling training.
Needle bone impaling, boot leather beef and shattered bone shards tend to moderate one’s appetite. Some ingredients just seem to have been tenderised with a truck.
While there’s a reasonable amount of competent food, the neighbours to the West set a fairly high bar. A bar that a lack of pride in one’s work and profession (arguably a common trait in the kingdom), will make it rather hard to meet.
There’s a lot of Khmer food that just doesn’t interest me, though I have given it a try.
Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
Why are you shaming the Cambodian culture and government? I thought that was a nono on this forum, or did I misunderstand you the other time?Freightdog wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:50 pm I do like Amok. The other half hates it. I’m surprised that it’s so mild, though. But then, I’ve only eaten it in a few locations.
I like quite spicy food. The other half quite often is way behind.
I once had Amok up at Oudong, (from the market below the stairway to burning knee hell) as a lunch option. I was nursing lacerated gums for days- why does so much of Asia have a problem separating bone from flesh? Bangladesh was the same. It’s like a Japanese extreme game show for the palate.
Filleting fish is something best done with a hammer.
The ministry of tourism really needs to invest in some humour, though. It takes itself far too seriously. If they really want to take such a stance, one thing that they could invest in is some food preparation and handling training.
Needle bone impaling, boot leather beef and shattered bone shards tend to moderate one’s appetite. Some ingredients just seem to have been tenderised with a truck.
While there’s a reasonable amount of competent food, the neighbours to the West set a fairly high bar. A bar that a lack of pride in one’s work and profession (arguably a common trait in the kingdom), will make it rather hard to meet.
There’s a lot of Khmer food that just doesn’t interest me, though I have given it a try.
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Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
same goes for us< i love hor mok and eat it often, but amok is just bland to me, I also love anything with coconut milk while the misses doesn'tFreightdog wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:50 pm I do like Amok. The other half hates it. I’m surprised that it’s so mild, though. But then, I’ve only eaten it in a few locations.
I like quite spicy food. The other half quite often is way behind.
I once had Amok up at Oudong, (from the market below the stairway to burning knee hell) as a lunch option. I was nursing lacerated gums for days- why does so much of Asia have a problem separating bone from flesh? Bangladesh was the same. It’s like a Japanese extreme game show for the palate.
Filleting fish is something best done with a hammer.
The ministry of tourism really needs to invest in some humour, though. It takes itself far too seriously. If they really want to take such a stance, one thing that they could invest in is some food preparation and handling training.
Needle bone impaling, boot leather beef and shattered bone shards tend to moderate one’s appetite. Some ingredients just seem to have been tenderised with a truck.
While there’s a reasonable amount of competent food, the neighbours to the West set a fairly high bar. A bar that a lack of pride in one’s work and profession (arguably a common trait in the kingdom), will make it rather hard to meet.
There’s a lot of Khmer food that just doesn’t interest me, though I have given it a try.
i think Khmer food includes all the bones ( note chickens an rice Cambodia vs Thailand), stems and stuff usually thrown away, cause those things fill out the dish and "waste now, want not"
75% of Cambodian food is just uneatable to me, i think its for sure an acquired taste as evidenced by only khmers like Khmer food.
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
Let's be straight here, we all know khmer food is inferior to Thai food in terms of preparation, presentation, popularity and above all, taste.
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Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
What's the big deal with Thai food? Most of it is shit.
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Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
And this is the thing- All appreciation of food is highly subjective. Some folks love French cooking, but if you hop over just one border the locals think the French are Meh! Despite having a lot of similarities.John Bingham wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:22 am What's the big deal with Thai food? Most of it is shit.
Back here, Amok as an example, can be made with quite consistent flavour. But the preparation can result in a very competent light meal, or something that you’d feed to rats in the hope of causing them serious internal injury. The aforementioned amok that I had in Oudong; It really was full of sharp bone splinters, and the fish largely pulverised into a rough paste. The Khmer that were with us thought it quite bad, too.
But separating out bones is often done through mastication, and mashing and sucking the resultant meat out. In Dhaka, the norm was to deposit a small ball of indigestible bone and other matter after chewing.
But I like well prepared, fleshy fish, like salmon. And lightly cooked. Most fish I find here has been over cooked, over salted.
Horses for course, as they say.
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Re: Cambodia Demands Public Apology from Uncle Roger for Food Video
Good point. Last time I spent a few days in Thailand I ate in a French restaurant every day.Freightdog wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:30 amAnd this is the thing- All appreciation of food is highly subjective. Some folks love French cooking, but if you hop over just one border the locals think the French are Meh! Despite having a lot of similarities.John Bingham wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:22 am What's the big deal with Thai food? Most of it is shit.
Silence, exile, and cunning.
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