John Bingham wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:40 pm I don't believe it is Vietnamese, although it's possible they make it in the delta area. I've had it cooked in a Khmer family home, but it's only made for special occasions.

Origin of Cambodian Fish Amok Trei ● Thai Hor Mok ● Lao Mok Pa ● Malay Otak Otak

The origin of amok trei, hor mok pla, mok pa and otak otak is uncertain and contested. Some believe it was created in the Khmer empire (802 - 1431) palace kitchen and spread to the Ayuthaya empire (1351 - 1767) palace. Others believe it spread in the opposite direction i.e. from Ayuthaya to Khmer. Similarly, some believe amok trei / hor mok pla travelled from mainland Southeast Asia to the Malay archipelago. Then, there are theories that Chinese traders brought the dish to Palembang during the Dutch colonial era.

We can look at clues from the history of Southeast Asia, from the ebb and flow of empires for possible theories of how the fish amok might have flowed in the river of time. I have only questions for which we can use to explore and hopefully find the answers to the origin of fish amok.

Jayavarman II (770 - 850) is widely regarded as the king who founded the Khmer empire (802 - 1431). Jayavarman II lived in Java for a while during the Javanese Sailendra dynasty (750 - 850).

Jayavarman II returned to Cambodia and founded the Khmer empire in 802. One could suggest that Jayavarman II brought otak otak back to Cambodia. By this theory, Malay / Javanese otak otak became amok trei in the Khmer empire.

The Siamese Ayuthaya empire was founded in 1351, carved from the once mighty Khmer empire during its nadir. The Laotian Lan Xang empire was similarly founded in 1353 i.e. at around the same time as the Ayuthaya empire.

Might it not be that the Thai hor mok and Laotian mok pa have their roots from Khmer amok trei which in turn possibly came from Malay / Javanese otak otak?

https://johorkaki.blogspot.com/2023/06/ ... -thai.html

down_time wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:07 pm

John Bingham wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:40 pm I don't believe it is Vietnamese, although it's possible they make it in the delta area. I've had it cooked in a Khmer family home, but it's only made for special occasions.

So i was spurred to do a little digging and found this. The guy makes a lot of sense, it would seem Vietnam probably has nothing to do with it.

Origin of Cambodian Fish Amok Trei ● Thai Hor Mok ● Lao Mok Pa ● Malay Otak Otak

The origin of amok trei, hor mok pla, mok pa and otak otak is uncertain and contested. Some believe it was created in the Khmer empire (802 - 1431) palace kitchen and spread to the Ayuthaya empire (1351 - 1767) palace. Others believe it spread in the opposite direction i.e. from Ayuthaya to Khmer. Similarly, some believe amok trei / hor mok pla travelled from mainland Southeast Asia to the Malay archipelago. Then, there are theories that Chinese traders brought the dish to Palembang during the Dutch colonial era.

We can look at clues from the history of Southeast Asia, from the ebb and flow of empires for possible theories of how the fish amok might have flowed in the river of time. I have only questions for which we can use to explore and hopefully find the answers to the origin of fish amok.

Jayavarman II (770 - 850) is widely regarded as the king who founded the Khmer empire (802 - 1431). Jayavarman II lived in Java for a while during the Javanese Sailendra dynasty (750 - 850).

Jayavarman II returned to Cambodia and founded the Khmer empire in 802. One could suggest that Jayavarman II brought otak otak back to Cambodia. By this theory, Malay / Javanese otak otak became amok trei in the Khmer empire.

The Siamese Ayuthaya empire was founded in 1351, carved from the once mighty Khmer empire during its nadir. The Laotian Lan Xang empire was similarly founded in 1353 i.e. at around the same time as the Ayuthaya empire.

Might it not be that the Thai hor mok and Laotian mok pa have their roots from Khmer amok trei which in turn possibly came from Malay / Javanese otak otak?

https://johorkaki.blogspot.com/2023/06/ ... -thai.html

Freightdog wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:50 pm I do like Amok. The other half hates it. I’m surprised that it’s so mild, though. But then, I’ve only eaten it in a few locations.
I like quite spicy food. The other half quite often is way behind.

I once had Amok up at Oudong, (from the market below the stairway to burning knee hell) as a lunch option. I was nursing lacerated gums for days- why does so much of Asia have a problem separating bone from flesh? Bangladesh was the same. It’s like a Japanese extreme game show for the palate.
Filleting fish is something best done with a hammer.

The ministry of tourism really needs to invest in some humour, though. It takes itself far too seriously. If they really want to take such a stance, one thing that they could invest in is some food preparation and handling training.
Needle bone impaling, boot leather beef and shattered bone shards tend to moderate one’s appetite. Some ingredients just seem to have been tenderised with a truck.

While there’s a reasonable amount of competent food, the neighbours to the West set a fairly high bar. A bar that a lack of pride in one’s work and profession (arguably a common trait in the kingdom), will make it rather hard to meet.
There’s a lot of Khmer food that just doesn’t interest me, though I have given it a try.

Freightdog wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:50 pm I do like Amok. The other half hates it. I’m surprised that it’s so mild, though. But then, I’ve only eaten it in a few locations.
I like quite spicy food. The other half quite often is way behind.

I once had Amok up at Oudong, (from the market below the stairway to burning knee hell) as a lunch option. I was nursing lacerated gums for days- why does so much of Asia have a problem separating bone from flesh? Bangladesh was the same. It’s like a Japanese extreme game show for the palate.
Filleting fish is something best done with a hammer.

The ministry of tourism really needs to invest in some humour, though. It takes itself far too seriously. If they really want to take such a stance, one thing that they could invest in is some food preparation and handling training.
Needle bone impaling, boot leather beef and shattered bone shards tend to moderate one’s appetite. Some ingredients just seem to have been tenderised with a truck.

While there’s a reasonable amount of competent food, the neighbours to the West set a fairly high bar. A bar that a lack of pride in one’s work and profession (arguably a common trait in the kingdom), will make it rather hard to meet.
There’s a lot of Khmer food that just doesn’t interest me, though I have given it a try.