Two questions about the Apsaras

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sammycooke
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Re: Two questions about the Apsaras

Post by sammycooke »



Mesmerizing.
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DavidK99
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Re: Two questions about the Apsaras

Post by DavidK99 »

I'm about to run out this morning but I want to really, really thank everyone for the great replies. Though my second question (about "real life" Apsaras) was a little frivolous, the foot question was a topic I really hoped to examine, and I feel that the answers that people have posted have gotten us (me, certainly) closer to understanding it.

I'm new to this site and am so impressed with how knowledgable you folks are, and all the thoughtful answers. Thank you again!
Last edited by DavidK99 on Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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atst
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Re: Two questions about the Apsaras

Post by atst »

sammycooke wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:53 am

Mesmerizing.
Don't know anything about thier feet but I've got a ting-a-ling in my loins now.
I'm standing up, so I must be straight.
What's a poor man do when the blues keep following him around.(Smoking Dynamite)
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DavidK99
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Re: Two questions about the Apsaras

Post by DavidK99 »

After ruminating on this, a few more thoughts...

I’m glad John Bingham pointed out that the standing figures (which my question was really about) are Devatas, and only the dancers are Apsaras. Writing the original post, I wondered if there were actually two types of females in the carvings, and I should have looked into that before posting. But in the third photo he posted, we see dancers carved with their feet sideways, too. I think that 90-95% the Devatas were shown with sideways feet. I don’t know what proportion of the Apsaras were carved that way.

So, we have a few ideas about this:

Sculptors were unable to carve feet with correct perspective.
I've only heard this from local guides, and it still seem impossible to me, since the artists' work was so accurate in other respects.

The angle was meant to convey movement or fluidity. I still like this. Though the Devetas weren’t necessarily dancers (or shown dancing), maybe the artists carved these idealized ladies in that way to suggest superhuman grace or posture. But even if that’s not the the explanation, maybe the sideways feet were still a stylistic choice, made for some other reason that eludes us.

It’s rude to point feet forward. I liked that a lot at first, but later thought hold it, is that really true? We know that soles of the feet pointed at anyone is very rude. If that was done before a person of high rank or royalty in the past, I wouldn’t be surprised if punishment or even execution resulted. But would (or were) feet on the ground, pointed forward, an insult or sin within a royal court? I don’t know. Commoners and lower ranking people were expected to crawl, or sort of shuffle across the floor or ground, in front of royalty. But if one was standing, would they be expected to avoid pointing feet towards royalty? Today I think it’s ok — Thai graduates have traditionally been seen by King while standing in a normal position. 1000 years ago, who knows? I ran this by my Thai wife and her sister. They didn’t think feet forward would be rude, either now or in the past. But John Bingham, you seem very well informed -- maybe you know more about the ancient customs and are right about this.

Looking at the feet forward Devata in bossho’s post, she also commented that from the look of her head dress, that that Devata may have had some special status, and maybe her higher station allowed that lady to stand feet forward, unlike her perhaps lower ranking sisters. That seems like a stretch to me but I mention it because…well, she's my wife.

I still wonder if the foot forward carvings were from a certain time period — if so, that might offer a clue. It seems like a hard thing to check, but maybe I’ll make the effort and follow up here.

As a layman, my comments may have little value -- others here clearly know much more about the carvings, history, and mythology.

I came across a nice site that’s all about the Apsaras and Devatas of Angkor: hhttp://www.devata.org/. It has a lot of good articles though I haven’t found any that address this topic. But I’ll write them and maybe they’ll have something to add.

Thanks again for the very interesting replies.
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IraHayes
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Re: Two questions about the Apsaras

Post by IraHayes »

DavidK99 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:06 pm Thanks again for the very interesting replies.
and thank you for the interesting question.
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John Bingham
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Re: Two questions about the Apsaras

Post by John Bingham »

My comment on the feet pointing forward was just a guess. Some statues do have them pointing more forward. When visiting pagodas you have to sit in a very awkward position with your legs tucked under and away from the monks though, and the same seems to go for the Thai king, as well as prostrating oneself.
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Re: Two questions about the Apsaras

Post by Grand Barong »

The shallow nature of the temple bas relief carvings make it very difficult to carve an extended foot projecting forward out of the slabs of sandstone, the carvings are usually made by carving away the background to show the design in the relief. A lot of material would need to be removed for each figures foot to face forward and as such would prove impractical.
This is true of not only the Apsara carvings but also of many other scenes all throughout Angkor Wat, like the heavens and hells bas relief below.
Just my humble opinion from what I have read, hope its helpful.

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