Chad Sexington wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:33 pm

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:17 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:07 am

wrote: Sorry way of topic but it's not just s.e.a

You're not wrong. The thing with safety regulations is that sometimes they're just not very practical. Maybe that ferry started out with life jackets back in the day but passengers stole them all in the first month or something.

Just as likely, that ferry wasn’t even a proper ferry designed for the purpose, or if a genuine ferry, one maintained and operated within its designed limits.

Indonesia has had a terrible reputation with ferry’s, and all too often they were operated outside of their capacity.



Supposedly, this is a ferry being used to transport the coffin of one of the deceased.
Lessons learned?

What’s the betting that the guy in the life vest is crew on the ferry?

The police chief in Kandal’s Leuk Daek district, Am Thou, said the accident occurred as the boat was approaching the shore. It took on water in the bow, and the students were instructed to move to seats in the middle or stern of the boat. However, as they walked back, the boat became unbalanced and turned over.

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:26 pm

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:03 pm

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:51 pm Safety measures are hugely inconvenient, from a whole range of points of view, and are ultimately useless if people ignore them.

If the maximum seating capacity were 20 people, and you load on 25 people, all standing up, plus a motorcycle or two, and some heavy boxes, then everything that comes after is unpredictable, even if it’s the cultural norm.

People don’t wear helmets on Bikes. They’re only going to the market, 2 minutes away.
The 12-15seat ‘taxi’ with a motorbike hanging off the back, a spare engine block and bags of rice under passengers feet.

You’ve got no chance getting everyone to wear life jackets. But if there were just a dozen life buoy rings and competent staff trained with some basic safety training, and being legally accountable, it would be ignored within days unless there were a culture, from a regulation point of view. That starts with the authorities. The ones often referred to in press articles as ‘competent’.

It all comes down to individual operators and the level of risk they are used to/comfortable with

I have traveled several times using one company to the islands off siahnoukville and one of them ensures that each and every soul is wearing a lifejacket

Another company provides the life jacket conspicuously on the back of each seat but wearing it isn't mandated

Similarly tour boats that we can hire in PP; one or two insist on life jackets, most do not

I have used a fair few ferries here also - seem to recall a few life rings but no life jackets

This is a tragic incident but totally unsurprising

That inconsistency only demonstrates the lack of regulation and authority- safety is entirely random based on the mindset of the operators involved. It’s not just big corporations that put profit ahead of safety.
I’m not a big fan of over-regulation. Sometimes, it feels like battling against diminishing returns. But without some basic measures, universally applied, it’s all tragically random for no good reason.

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:26 pm

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:03 pm

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:51 pm Safety measures are hugely inconvenient, from a whole range of points of view, and are ultimately useless if people ignore them.

If the maximum seating capacity were 20 people, and you load on 25 people, all standing up, plus a motorcycle or two, and some heavy boxes, then everything that comes after is unpredictable, even if it’s the cultural norm.

People don’t wear helmets on Bikes. They’re only going to the market, 2 minutes away.
The 12-15seat ‘taxi’ with a motorbike hanging off the back, a spare engine block and bags of rice under passengers feet.

You’ve got no chance getting everyone to wear life jackets. But if there were just a dozen life buoy rings and competent staff trained with some basic safety training, and being legally accountable, it would be ignored within days unless there were a culture, from a regulation point of view. That starts with the authorities. The ones often referred to in press articles as ‘competent’.

It all comes down to individual operators and the level of risk they are used to/comfortable with

I have traveled several times using one company to the islands off siahnoukville and one of them ensures that each and every soul is wearing a lifejacket

Another company provides the life jacket conspicuously on the back of each seat but wearing it isn't mandated

Similarly tour boats that we can hire in PP; one or two insist on life jackets, most do not

I have used a fair few ferries here also - seem to recall a few life rings but no life jackets

This is a tragic incident but totally unsurprising

That inconsistency only demonstrates the lack of regulation and authority- safety is entirely random based on the mindset of the operators involved. It’s not just big corporations that put profit ahead of safety.
I’m not a big fan of over-regulation. Sometimes, it feels like battling against diminishing returns. But without some basic measures, universally applied, it’s all tragically random for no good reason.

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:37 pm

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:26 pm

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:03 pm

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:51 pm Safety measures are hugely inconvenient, from a whole range of points of view, and are ultimately useless if people ignore them.

If the maximum seating capacity were 20 people, and you load on 25 people, all standing up, plus a motorcycle or two, and some heavy boxes, then everything that comes after is unpredictable, even if it’s the cultural norm.

People don’t wear helmets on Bikes. They’re only going to the market, 2 minutes away.
The 12-15seat ‘taxi’ with a motorbike hanging off the back, a spare engine block and bags of rice under passengers feet.

You’ve got no chance getting everyone to wear life jackets. But if there were just a dozen life buoy rings and competent staff trained with some basic safety training, and being legally accountable, it would be ignored within days unless there were a culture, from a regulation point of view. That starts with the authorities. The ones often referred to in press articles as ‘competent’.

It all comes down to individual operators and the level of risk they are used to/comfortable with

I have traveled several times using one company to the islands off siahnoukville and one of them ensures that each and every soul is wearing a lifejacket

Another company provides the life jacket conspicuously on the back of each seat but wearing it isn't mandated

Similarly tour boats that we can hire in PP; one or two insist on life jackets, most do not

I have used a fair few ferries here also - seem to recall a few life rings but no life jackets

This is a tragic incident but totally unsurprising

That inconsistency only demonstrates the lack of regulation and authority- safety is entirely random based on the mindset of the operators involved. It’s not just big corporations that put profit ahead of safety.
I’m not a big fan of over-regulation. Sometimes, it feels like battling against diminishing returns. But without some basic measures, universally applied, it’s all tragically random for no good reason.

I'm from a "western" island nation myself, and life jackets are not mandated on ferries there either

I can't think of one in Europe where life jacket wearing is mandatory either.

Rafts would be onboard though, maybe not enough for everybody but could carry a decent percentage if they had time to deploy and board them

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:32 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:21 pm Looking at that picture of such a low sided tub, it is easy to see how quickly things can unravel when you re-read the initial reports:

The police chief in Kandal’s Leuk Daek district, Am Thou, said the accident occurred as the boat was approaching the shore. It took on water in the bow, and the students were instructed to move to seats in the middle or stern of the boat. However, as they walked back, the boat became unbalanced and turned over.

Once the bow has become flooded, and they panic and rush to the stern, that too could become submerged as the weight shift is so sudden and whatever buoyancy at the stern was overwhelmed. Once this chain of events is set in motion the thing probably capsized within 10 seconds.

Some reasonably watertight sidings could avoid taking on a lot of water because of a sudden drop below the water level. Not ideal but it might just stop the chain of events getting out of control.

Definitely. Try walking across a room with a shallow tray full of water, without spilling any. It surges. The surge makes it uncontrollable. Surge of people or water, it becomes irrelevant at some point, because the whole situation quickly goes out of control.