Random Dude wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:06 am

Kenr wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:56 am

mossie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:08 am So it's just postal business as usual, but a bit more publicity nowadays?

For the last 5-10 years? Pretty much. There are ones here in Texas, in fact one just happened during a trail ride a few weeks ago, that don’t get much publicity. The ones that stand out and get all the publicity are the ones that involve children and those that involve large gatherings, which do seem have slowly increased over the years.

But these shootings are the norm in Texas for as long as I can remember.

I saw this article just before I saw this post....

"US mass shootings are getting deadlier and more common, analysis shows"

"The last five years have seen more mass shootings than any other comparable time span dating back to 1966, with 31 massacres from 2017 through 2021, compared with 24 from 2012 through 2016
Anastasia Valeeva, Wendy Ruderman, Katie Park for the Marshall Project
Wed 6 Jul 2022 07.00 BST
Last modified on Wed 6 Jul 2022 18.25 BST

On the morning of 4 July, President Joe Biden hailed the day as one to “celebrate the goodness of our nation”.

Less than an hour after his 9.25am EST tweet, a gunman on a rooftop opened fire into a crowd of spectators who gathered to enjoy a Fourth of July parade in a Chicago suburb. He killed seven people and injured dozens.

Monday’s mass shooting in Highland Park, Illinois, brought fresh anguish to a nation already shaken this year by the murders of schoolchildren in Uvalde, Texas, and Black shoppers in Buffalo, New York.

If it feels like mass shootings have become more frequent, that intuition is correct, according to data analysis by the Marshall Project."

You can see the whole article, with graphs and charts etc here
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/06 ... ore-common

I think the way different institutions determine their definition of what constitutes a mass shooting causes confusion. I agree with your post as to what constitutes a mass shooting, a massacre. It doesn’t take away my disgust for the other shootings and doesn’t make those less relevant, but the 31 to 24 difference is definitely an increase but isn’t that astronomical of a difference over 2 five year periods, but that’s just my opinion.

Until these politicians are willing to tell the NRA to fuck off and stop pointing fingers and making excuses as to why these shootings occur, and admit to why it is able to happen, it’s never going to end.

I also believe punishment comes into play, with the "sane;" Japan, one of the lowest murder rates globally, has hanging as murder punishment, along with very strict laws regarding gun possession. In fact Asia as a whole has the lowest levels.

Other countries, like Australia and New Zealand, are low-ish, but the reporting records are suspect.

Compared to the highest rates of homicide, US (~8/100,000) is much lower than the highest, however the higher numbers are from smaller populations like Jamaica and El Salvador. But not far behind them are large populaces like South Africa, Brazil, Nigeria, Venezuela, all between 30 and 40 murders per 100,000 people.

The difference is the randomness of the mass murders, and do all these gunmen have diagnosed mental problems?

Whomever has the power crush the NRA, is as guilty of allowing this to reoccur, at the rate it does, as the NRA, itself, for not having the parts to do so.

Let me just respond to the people in general, including the politicians here in the United States, that believe these individuals are mentally unstable. When you make that assertion you are stating that, in the eyes of the law, none of these individuals can be held accountable for their actions. So when someone goes out there and kills 10, 15, 20, people with a gun, what everyone is saying is that person cannot be held responsible for their actions. So in the eyes of the law, and everyone else’s, if it’s not their fault and they can’t be held accountable for their actions due to mental defect, then who’s fault is it? Who should be held accountable? Is no one to blame?

Kenr wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:07 am Let me just respond to the people in general, including the politicians here in the United States, that believe these individuals are mentally unstable. When you make that assertion you are stating that, in the eyes of the law, none of these individuals can be held accountable for their actions. So when someone goes out there and kills 10, 15, 20, people with a gun, what everyone is saying is that person cannot be held responsible for their actions. So in the eyes of the law, and everyone else’s, if it’s not their fault and they can’t be held accountable for their actions due to mental defect, then who’s fault is it? Who should be held accountable? Is no one to blame?

Good point

Kenr wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:07 am .., if it’s not their fault and they can’t be held accountable for their actions due to mental defect, then who’s fault is it? Who should be held accountable? Is no one to blame?

It's nobody's fault, silly monkey - it's God's will! If we all feared God a little more this country wouldn't be in half the mess it's in. You need to stop asking questions and pray a little harder, mister.

Kung-fu Hillbilly wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:02 am

Kenr wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:07 am .., if it’s not their fault and they can’t be held accountable for their actions due to mental defect, then who’s fault is it? Who should be held accountable? Is no one to blame?

It's nobody's fault, silly monkey - it's God's will! If we all feared God a little more this country wouldn't be in half the mess it's in. You need to stop asking questions and pray a little harder, mister.

Freightdog wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:03 am

Kenr wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:07 am Let me just respond to the people in general, including the politicians here in the United States, that believe these individuals are mentally unstable. When you make that assertion you are stating that, in the eyes of the law, none of these individuals can be held accountable for their actions. So when someone goes out there and kills 10, 15, 20, people with a gun, what everyone is saying is that person cannot be held responsible for their actions. So in the eyes of the law, and everyone else’s, if it’s not their fault and they can’t be held accountable for their actions due to mental defect, then who’s fault is it? Who should be held accountable? Is no one to blame?

Taking two prominent recent events into consideration, surely the legislators and elected representatives carry responsibility out of sheer negligence, for allowing the easy access by virtue of NOT making the difficult decisions that so many people can see as obvious, and yet others find unpalatable.

But does mental instability absolve anyone of responsibility for their own actions. I’m no psychologist, but black and white determination of either sane or not seems to be a problem. Therefore, fitness and competence need to be part of the criteria for owning and possessing.

PTSD, stress, physiological factors among others are all factors which may diminish someones capacity to make rational decisions, even temporarily.

There are laws in the United States that say they are not accountable for their actions. And the more these lawmakers harp on that theory of metal issues and not acknowledge the real problem, the worse it could be for the victims to get justice.

Kenr wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:14 am

Freightdog wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:03 am

Kenr wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:07 am Let me just respond to the people in general, including the politicians here in the United States, that believe these individuals are mentally unstable. When you make that assertion you are stating that, in the eyes of the law, none of these individuals can be held accountable for their actions. So when someone goes out there and kills 10, 15, 20, people with a gun, what everyone is saying is that person cannot be held responsible for their actions. So in the eyes of the law, and everyone else’s, if it’s not their fault and they can’t be held accountable for their actions due to mental defect, then who’s fault is it? Who should be held accountable? Is no one to blame?

Taking two prominent recent events into consideration, surely the legislators and elected representatives carry responsibility out of sheer negligence, for allowing the easy access by virtue of NOT making the difficult decisions that so many people can see as obvious, and yet others find unpalatable.

But does mental instability absolve anyone of responsibility for their own actions. I’m no psychologist, but black and white determination of either sane or not seems to be a problem. Therefore, fitness and competence need to be part of the criteria for owning and possessing.

PTSD, stress, physiological factors among others are all factors which may diminish someones capacity to make rational decisions, even temporarily.

There are laws in the United States that say they are not accountable for their actions. And the more these lawmakers harp on that theory of metal issues and not acknowledge the real problem, the worse it could be for the victims to get justice.

Anybody deemed to be unaccountable for their own actions because of their lack of mental ability/stability (even if it’s temporarily, if it happens once, it can happen again) should be either in the care of persons who will be held accountable for them, or they should be kept apart from the rest of society. ‘No accountability’, should equate to ‘no liberty’
How many instances of murders/mass killings have been committed by persons known to be mentally unstable with violent views and/or tendencies?
Allowing ‘crazy’ people to be at liberty is asking for trouble, but it’s allowed, because of the expense and/or the pressure from do-gooders.

Pseudonomdeplume wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:55 am ... with very strict laws regarding gun possession. In fact Asia as a whole has the lowest levels.

The difference is the randomness of the mass murders, and do all these gunmen have diagnosed mental problems?

Whomever has the power crush the NRA, is as guilty of allowing this to reoccur...

...yes, the laws for gun ownership are very strict in China, Japan, South Korea. In Taiwan, where I lived for years, you can go out anywhere in the city at any hour and you'll be safe... In Taiwan, the penalty for possessing a handgun is 3 to 4 years in prison without priors; if you are caught buying or selling larger guns, rifles or automatic weapons, you will get 16 years in prison... There is gangsterism in Taiwan, Japan, China, etc ...but they mostly kill each other, and leave ordinary people alone, like the biker gang drug dealers in Canada.

Asia doesn't have the high levels of nutball knife crime like the UK, either. So, it seems that the West and South Africa and Latin America has a preponderance of either angry hotheads, or these delusional copycat mass shooters. In South Africa and Latin America, poverty is the biggest driver of homicide, besides their general hotheadedness...

But in middle-class America, these guys are driven by strange fixed ideas and hatreds of self and others. Frustrated passions or inhibition leads them to become obsessed with doing the same thing some other copycat zombie already did... That seems to be the obvious recurring pattern here... Naming it "mental problems" is a red herring... Because these mass shootings are larger than any single individual's problems -- the shootings represent a gross societal affliction that is propagated on an all-encompassing scale...

Obviously, the only effective solution is to ban the sale and ownership of all firearms to the general public. Eventually, the U.S. will do this. It is only a question of -- WHEN?