Bhutan

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phuketrichard
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Re: Bhutan

Post by phuketrichard »

Ressl;
I envy you, musty have been great< how long? where did you enter exit?

Got this response from an agent:
Direct flights with no stopover
Bangkok to Paro to Bangkok: Tuesday, Friday and Sunday

KB151 Bangkok � Paro 1310 1525KB150 Paro � Bangkok 0800 1210

Paro to Bangkok:: Monday
KB130 Paro � Bagdogra 1130 1150 Bagdogra - Bangkokk 1240 1725

Please find our 10 days 9 nights Bhutan Tour itinerary attached for your kind reference.
The Tour Cost (exclusive of airfare) will be USD 3650/person

The economy airfare for BKK-PBH-BKK is USD 950/person (inclusive of taxes)
* Airfare and taxes are subject to change without prior notice

The Total Package Cost will be USD 4600/person
The package is inclusive of
1) Flights between Bangkok and Paro by Drukair (Royal Bhutan Airlines)
2) Visas for Bhutan
3) A qualified & licensed English-speaking guide
4) An experienced driver
5) A tour vehicle
6) All meals on tour
7) Accommodations at 3-star hotels (subject to availability)
8) Taxes, surcharges, the government contribution and Tourism Development funds
9) Mineral water for the duration of the stay
10) One traditional costume set � Gho / Kira � for use throughout your stay in Bhutan.an. To be returned to the guide on the last day of the tour.
11) Free entry to all heritage and cultural importance site
As to you can always go to Nepal> forget that, Nepal is not what is was, went there in 2019, nothing like before, traffic , smog, really bad air quality, spoiled, You can even drive to Loh Manang now ( at a high cost of $50/day tax)
I'll go back to Ladakh, BUT knowing it is not the same as Bhutan

The numbers of people travelling will drop significantly and many tour operators will have to cut cost>
you can book all ur own hotels/food an travel BUT without ur own car/driver and using what little public transport available, it will be hard pressed to see as much as you could with ur own driver ( I have heard you can cut cost by getting a driver that can also act as a guide). You will still be stuck with a surcharge of $40/day travelling alone or $30/day if a couple

I figure the cheapest you'll be be able to do it is $300/day/person low season.
I can see their reasoning and in the long run it might work but they will lose revenue for the next few years.
FYI: must be one of the most expensive airfares for such a short flight

a good read here:
https://www.firefoxtours.com/blog/bhuta ... and-policy
Tourists might also just come to Bhutan after paying 200 USD per person per day and then to stay in hotels from Booking.com. For transport, they might travel by taxi or bus and use guide only when it is totally necessary. We can't really say exactly how much you can save by traveling like this, perhaps you can press cost down to 250-300 USD per person per day. However, Bhutanese infrastructure is not really ready for this. Without the expertly and individually crafted tour package, visitor will most likely experience considerably less in longer time compared to what is possible with fine-tuned program, private transport and professional and friendly guide. At the end there will be no or very little savings on cost while experience will be compromised.
.......
Tourism industry will be very hardly hit and damaged by this decision. Hotels, Tour Operators, handicraft vendors and producers will all have much harder time to find their customers since tourists will come in much less number than before. Many businesses will end, people will lost their jobs. Even with tourism tax increased threefold, the total state revenue from tourism will drop dramatically.
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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orichá
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Re: Bhutan

Post by orichá »

...in 1997 and 1999, I made two alpine bicycle trips in China/Tibet...

The first was from Yunnan up to Tibet via Lijiang, Deqen, Yanjing and Chamdo, basically far western Tibet. I cycled back down from Chamdo to Chengdu, in Sichuan. The elevation change, from Yunnan up into Tibet involved traversing 3 mountain ridges, with the highest pass at 5003 meters. It took days to ride up there to Markham and Chamdo... But the views on the way, particularly riding up to Deqen, were phenomenal: the enormous Mt. Meilixue towers over the road G214, which is already over 4000 meters up... The local people were very nice. Back then, all the roads were a hard-packed red clay, and road grades seldom exceeded 7 or 10%, they were usually around 4 or 5%, but those passes climbed up forever, like non-stop up for 20 or 30 kilometers... Then down again, and up again, and again...

In 1999, I went back to China, Xinjiang and Tibet and got a view of the Himalayas from the north side. I flew to Kashgar and cycled south to cross into Tibet from Xinjiang via the Kunlun and Karakorum mountain ranges. Wow, that was something else. Above the Karakorum valley, the Aksai Chin plateau is upwards of 5,000 metres. I was camping out, woke up one morning to discover the dawn temperature was 9 below zero Celcius... My tent was covered in frost, and this was July... But I just packed up, and started riding. By late-morning the temperatures were already approaching 20 degrees Celsius. Fabulous luminescent mineral water lakes, isolated spring-fed reedy green wetlands with ducks in the middle of the lunar-scape, and Lake Pangong is huge. ...Continued riding to the ruins of the Guge Kingdom in Toling county, set beside the Sutlej River. The most spectacular view of the Himalayas is from high road coming south, going down into the canyons before Toling/Guge...

Anyway, in those days, camping out solo, eating local foods, carrying my own snacks, etc., I spent only 300 U.S. a month on food and accomodations. Each trip was two months long. I cycled over 3 or 4,000 kilometers up there... Cost more to fly in and out from Taiwan via Hong Kong than all I spent on the road.

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Leaving the Karakorums up into Aksai Chin...

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The Guge Kingdom in the Sutlej valley...

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Rainbow at Tsaparang village, Toling county...

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The beautiful badland butte overlooking the Sutlej River at Tsaparang, Toling county, Tibet...

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Tibetan truck drivers at the top of the road over into Toling county...

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Two Tibetan women working at the tent hotel on the shores of Pangong Tso...

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Tibetan nomad, his family yurt and my cycling tent beside it...
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orichá
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Re: Bhutan

Post by orichá »

Here are a few more photos from my cycling trips to Tibet...

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Tibetan nomad girl beyond the first pass after Kailash mountain on the way east into central Tibet, 1999...

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Khampa boys of western Tibet at a public pony race in a meadow near Markham, 1997...

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Young Tibetan women at the pony races in the meadow near Markham, 1997...

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Stupendous panorama of the high Himalayas, looking south at them from the high plateau above the Sutlej River valley, 1999...
~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~
“There are terrible difficulties in the notion of probability, but we may ignore them at present.” - Bertrand Russell
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orichá
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Re: Bhutan

Post by orichá »

Oops, small-big error in my post about Tibet: Chamdo is in the far east of Tibet, which is in the far west of China, which I visited in 1997. The Aksai Chin, the Guge Kingdom and Toling county are in the far west of Tibet, visited 1999...

It is a pity, since 2008 and the Lhasa uprising, China has closed off Tibet to all independent travellers... The only way to go there today in 2022, by bike, is on a 3,000+ dollars group tour for 2 or 3 weeks; so, there's no more 2 months of free camping in the wilderness like I did for less than 600 dollars plus airfare...
~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~
“There are terrible difficulties in the notion of probability, but we may ignore them at present.” - Bertrand Russell
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Re: Bhutan

Post by ressl »

phuketrichard wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:31 am Ressl;
I envy you, musty have been great< how long? where did you enter exit?
I need to check the exact date, but if I remember correctly, it was 16 days. Entry in Phuentsholing and exit in Samdrup Jongkhar. That was one of the challenges, because at that time, the requirement had been, that either entry or exit has to happen on a plane - but Druk Air refused my 3t Landrover as luggage :D
The route was not that difficult to determine - if you look at the map, there are not that many options. So first I went north, did the western loop (where I killed my front diff when the car fell in a drainage), continued (on rear wheel drive) to Thimpu (where of course I went up to the Tigers Nest - but different to my guide I have Alpine experience, so I had to wait for him 30 minutes at the entry of the monastery), then continued (on the only road) to the west (which got tricky, due to road construction and fixed opening hours of the road).
In the beginning my guide was as flexible as a crowbar. Thankfully he realized very quick, that I am not the ordinary tourist and if something fails, or there is something unexpected on the way, I don't make trouble. So it happened, that I went with him to places he never had been before or wasn't even aware of, on the other hand he got me to other places, I had not on my itinerary. So both of us had a very special experience on this trip and as mentioned before, if you go for the local food, it is amazing (this I did on the 2nd day with the tour agency, telling them, that they can save a lot of money by not ordering the tasteless special tourist food at fancy special tourist restaurants, while the guides had to sit separately and get their local food - absolutely no-go! - instead I will go with my guide to the local restaurants or even shacks. Thankfully they agreed - something that I would super strongly recommend to everyone going to Bhutan)
Driving on Cambodian roads is just like playing a classic arcade top scroller. The only difference is a force feedback controller, the limitation to only one life and the inability to restart, once Game Over
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