Do you support Ukraine or Russia?

John Bingham · Post by **John Bingham** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:46 am

So you're saying Putin was lying when he said it was a special operation to stop Nazis?

Post by **Freightdog** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:11 am

John Bingham wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:46 am So you're saying Putin was lying when he said it was a special operation to stop Nazis?

As time has gone on, the Russian regime and it’s apologists have become quite confused as to what’s going on, and why

Ukraine is full of nazis
Ukraine neutrality being essential to russia’s security
Ukraine is full of satanists
Ukraine belongs to russia, and always has

And many permutations and variations of these ideas. To believe otherwise, we’re told, is clearly failing to understand that the US made it happen. It doesn’t make sense, and they know it.

Whatever the death toll in the Russian ranks is, now, here’s a fun fact- russian soldiers are dying for a war that has variable, inconsistent, and non-complementary reasons for starting in the first place, in a war that it was ill prepared for.
Ukrainians are dying defending a homeland and their own rights.

*yes, russia gets a small r for now.

Kenr · Post by **Kenr** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:13 am

Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:19 am
Kenr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:43 pm
Malone wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:31 pm
Kenr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:07 pm
Malone wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:16 pm

hm. humorous.
well of course you need some basic understanding in geo politics and look a little further than standard western propaganda.
So where do you get your propaganda from? In Putin’s own words, he invaded because he wanted to denazify Ukraine, doesn’t consider Ukraine a real country, and claims Ukraine was committing genicide on Russians there, amongst other reasons.
ever heard of the Minsk treaty?
western politicians admitted last month they never were planning on respecting it. only buying time to prepare for war against Russia.
the Ukrainian government treat russian descendants as second class citizens and they did kill a lot of people in Eastern Ukraine.
LOL. Dude, get over it. The only thing I ever defended Ukraine on is that Russia invaded them, a sovereign country. You are the one making accusations that the US wanted this war and doesn’t want it to end, which is pure speculative BS. Nobody was planning to start a war with Russia, possibly just preparing for one, which has been going on for a long time, a big difference. You are the one making accusations that doesn’t even make sense, because the US nor the world needed another war of this magnitude.
in April last year Russian and Ukrainian leaders met in Istanbul for negotiations. they were this close to sign a peace agreement until the west (in this case b. Johnson) interfered. so the war kept going.
I told you already. Russia for 30 years said Ukraine needs to stay neutral. or else. for Russia a neutral Ukraine is a matter of national security. that's how they see it. the US knew that all along but kept pushing and preparing to take Ukraine into nato.
they were also the ones who refused to negotiate with Russia before it all started.
just because you never heard of it or can't wrap your head around it does not make speculative or BS

LOL. Fuck “or else”, this shit has been going on since 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. And they were never close to a peace agreement to ending this war. And if your claim that Boris Johnson interfered with these negotiations is true, which it isn’t, what does that have to do with the US? The truth of the matter is that this is nothing more than a land grab on Russia’s part. Your claim that the US wanted this war to start and does not want it to end is pure BS.

Malone · Post by **Malone** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:07 pm

Kenr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:13 am
Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:19 am
Kenr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:43 pm
Malone wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:31 pm
Kenr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:07 pm

So where do you get your propaganda from? In Putin’s own words, he invaded because he wanted to denazify Ukraine, doesn’t consider Ukraine a real country, and claims Ukraine was committing genicide on Russians there, amongst other reasons.
ever heard of the Minsk treaty?
western politicians admitted last month they never were planning on respecting it. only buying time to prepare for war against Russia.
the Ukrainian government treat russian descendants as second class citizens and they did kill a lot of people in Eastern Ukraine.
LOL. Dude, get over it. The only thing I ever defended Ukraine on is that Russia invaded them, a sovereign country. You are the one making accusations that the US wanted this war and doesn’t want it to end, which is pure speculative BS. Nobody was planning to start a war with Russia, possibly just preparing for one, which has been going on for a long time, a big difference. You are the one making accusations that doesn’t even make sense, because the US nor the world needed another war of this magnitude.
in April last year Russian and Ukrainian leaders met in Istanbul for negotiations. they were this close to sign a peace agreement until the west (in this case b. Johnson) interfered. so the war kept going.
I told you already. Russia for 30 years said Ukraine needs to stay neutral. or else. for Russia a neutral Ukraine is a matter of national security. that's how they see it. the US knew that all along but kept pushing and preparing to take Ukraine into nato.
they were also the ones who refused to negotiate with Russia before it all started.
just because you never heard of it or can't wrap your head around it does not make speculative or BS
LOL. Fuck “or else”, this shit has been going on since 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. And they were never close to a peace agreement to ending this war. And if your claim that Boris Johnson interfered with these negotiations is true, which it isn’t, what does that have to do with the US? The truth of the matter is that this is nothing more than a land grab on Russia’s part. Your claim that the US wanted this war to start and does not want it to end is pure BS.

no. it started with an organized coup against the democratic elected president janukowich. he was then replaced by a fascist regime around poroschenko.
and that was organized by the US. this is what they do since ab. 70 years.

Kenr · Post by **Kenr** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:15 pm

Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:07 pm
Kenr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:13 am
Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:19 am
Kenr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:43 pm
Malone wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:31 pm
ever heard of the Minsk treaty?
western politicians admitted last month they never were planning on respecting it. only buying time to prepare for war against Russia.
the Ukrainian government treat russian descendants as second class citizens and they did kill a lot of people in Eastern Ukraine.
LOL. Dude, get over it. The only thing I ever defended Ukraine on is that Russia invaded them, a sovereign country. You are the one making accusations that the US wanted this war and doesn’t want it to end, which is pure speculative BS. Nobody was planning to start a war with Russia, possibly just preparing for one, which has been going on for a long time, a big difference. You are the one making accusations that doesn’t even make sense, because the US nor the world needed another war of this magnitude.
in April last year Russian and Ukrainian leaders met in Istanbul for negotiations. they were this close to sign a peace agreement until the west (in this case b. Johnson) interfered. so the war kept going.
I told you already. Russia for 30 years said Ukraine needs to stay neutral. or else. for Russia a neutral Ukraine is a matter of national security. that's how they see it. the US knew that all along but kept pushing and preparing to take Ukraine into nato.
they were also the ones who refused to negotiate with Russia before it all started.
just because you never heard of it or can't wrap your head around it does not make speculative or BS
LOL. Fuck “or else”, this shit has been going on since 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. And they were never close to a peace agreement to ending this war. And if your claim that Boris Johnson interfered with these negotiations is true, which it isn’t, what does that have to do with the US? The truth of the matter is that this is nothing more than a land grab on Russia’s part. Your claim that the US wanted this war to start and does not want it to end is pure BS.
no. it started with an organized coup against the democratic elected president janukowich. he was then replaced by a fascist regime around poroschenko.
and that was organized by the US. this is what they do since ab. 70 years.

Really? So I guess his close relationship with Russia and not wanting to participate in the European Free Trade Agreement and various abuse of power by the government at that time had nothing to do with him being ousted by parliament? Gotcha.

Malone · Post by **Malone** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:25 pm

Kenr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:15 pm
Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:07 pm
Kenr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:13 am
Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:19 am
Kenr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:43 pm

LOL. Dude, get over it. The only thing I ever defended Ukraine on is that Russia invaded them, a sovereign country. You are the one making accusations that the US wanted this war and doesn’t want it to end, which is pure speculative BS. Nobody was planning to start a war with Russia, possibly just preparing for one, which has been going on for a long time, a big difference. You are the one making accusations that doesn’t even make sense, because the US nor the world needed another war of this magnitude.
in April last year Russian and Ukrainian leaders met in Istanbul for negotiations. they were this close to sign a peace agreement until the west (in this case b. Johnson) interfered. so the war kept going.
I told you already. Russia for 30 years said Ukraine needs to stay neutral. or else. for Russia a neutral Ukraine is a matter of national security. that's how they see it. the US knew that all along but kept pushing and preparing to take Ukraine into nato.
they were also the ones who refused to negotiate with Russia before it all started.
just because you never heard of it or can't wrap your head around it does not make speculative or BS
LOL. Fuck “or else”, this shit has been going on since 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. And they were never close to a peace agreement to ending this war. And if your claim that Boris Johnson interfered with these negotiations is true, which it isn’t, what does that have to do with the US? The truth of the matter is that this is nothing more than a land grab on Russia’s part. Your claim that the US wanted this war to start and does not want it to end is pure BS.
no. it started with an organized coup against the democratic elected president janukowich. he was then replaced by a fascist regime around poroschenko.
and that was organized by the US. this is what they do since ab. 70 years.
Really? So I guess his close relationship with Russia and not wanting to participate in the European Free Trade Agreement had nothing to do with him being ousted by parliament? Gotcha.

ousted. by parliament? gotcha? muahaha.
it was a. violent coup. brought in from outside the country.
he was neutral. he said I want to make good business with the west and Russia. the rest he didn't care.
OK this is just getting too ridiculous.

Kenr · Post by **Kenr** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:28 pm

Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:25 pm
Kenr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:15 pm
Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:07 pm
Kenr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:13 am
Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:19 am

in April last year Russian and Ukrainian leaders met in Istanbul for negotiations. they were this close to sign a peace agreement until the west (in this case b. Johnson) interfered. so the war kept going.
I told you already. Russia for 30 years said Ukraine needs to stay neutral. or else. for Russia a neutral Ukraine is a matter of national security. that's how they see it. the US knew that all along but kept pushing and preparing to take Ukraine into nato.
they were also the ones who refused to negotiate with Russia before it all started.
just because you never heard of it or can't wrap your head around it does not make speculative or BS
LOL. Fuck “or else”, this shit has been going on since 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. And they were never close to a peace agreement to ending this war. And if your claim that Boris Johnson interfered with these negotiations is true, which it isn’t, what does that have to do with the US? The truth of the matter is that this is nothing more than a land grab on Russia’s part. Your claim that the US wanted this war to start and does not want it to end is pure BS.
no. it started with an organized coup against the democratic elected president janukowich. he was then replaced by a fascist regime around poroschenko.
and that was organized by the US. this is what they do since ab. 70 years.
Really? So I guess his close relationship with Russia and not wanting to participate in the European Free Trade Agreement had nothing to do with him being ousted by parliament? Gotcha.
ousted. by parliament? gotcha? muahaha.
it was a. violent coup. brought in from outside the country.
he was neutral. he said I want to make good business with the west and Russia. the rest he didn't care.
OK this is just getting too ridiculous.

LOL. Their parliament voted unanimously to remove him. And he was far from neutral.

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:40 pm

Malone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:19 am in April last year Russian and Ukrainian leaders met in Istanbul for negotiations. they were this close to sign a peace agreement until the west (in this case b. Johnson) interfered. so the war kept going.
I told you already. Russia for 30 years said Ukraine needs to stay neutral. or else. for Russia a neutral Ukraine is a matter of national security. that's how they see it. the US knew that all along but kept pushing and preparing to take Ukraine into nato.
they were also the ones who refused to negotiate with Russia before it all started.
just because you never heard of it or can't wrap your head around it does not make speculative or BS

The problem is, that's not up to Russia to decide.

And you seem to forget Russia promised not to ever attack Ukraine in return for Ukraine giving up its' nuclear weapons in the early nineties.

Kenr · Post by **Kenr** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:31 pm

The fact remains that Russia has no right to tell Ukraine that they could or couldn’t join NATO. There is no written agreement stating NATO cannot expand to the east.

newkidontheblock · Post by **newkidontheblock** » Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:50 pm

Russia told Belarus to stay neutral and not join the west. And it did. Russia then installed a puppet leader. People rebelled. Russia sent in troops to crush the rebellion. Straight from the playbook of the Soviet Socialist Republic system.

This is what it means to be a neutral country. Russia wants Ukraine to be neutral like Belarus. Why can’t Ukraine just understand that mother Russia (Putin) knows what’s best for them?

My interpretation of the events unfolding.

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