Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
- John Bingham
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Re: Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
So you admit that you don't know what you are talking about? Well done champ.hdgh29 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:46 pmI try to avoid involvement or even commenting on the internal affairs of distant lands, especially since I don't have a clue where they are. I leave them alone and I expect them to leave me alone. Its worked out ok so far.John Bingham wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:41 pmYou must be very young, don't you know anything about Chechnya, Abkhazia or South Ossetia?
Silence, exile, and cunning.
- siliconlife
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Re: Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
Don't forget Aleppo.John Bingham wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:41 pmYou must be very young, don't you know anything about Chechnya, Abkhazia or South Ossetia?
- Jerry Atrick
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Re: Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
siliconlife wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:25 pmDon't forget Aleppo.John Bingham wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:41 pmYou must be very young, don't you know anything about Chechnya, Abkhazia or South Ossetia?
- John Bingham
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Re: Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
I forgot Central African Republic and Mali too.siliconlife wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:25 pmDon't forget Aleppo.John Bingham wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:41 pmYou must be very young, don't you know anything about Chechnya, Abkhazia or South Ossetia?
Silence, exile, and cunning.
- hdgh29
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Re: Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
That is as may be, but it does not stop me (or most of the other posters here) from airing opinions. Luckily we have experts in world affairs like yourself to issue corrections when we get out of line. Thanks for that.John Bingham wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:08 pmSo you admit that you don't know what you are talking about? Well done champ.hdgh29 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:46 pmI try to avoid involvement or even commenting on the internal affairs of distant lands, especially since I don't have a clue where they are. I leave them alone and I expect them to leave me alone. Its worked out ok so far.John Bingham wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:41 pmYou must be very young, don't you know anything about Chechnya, Abkhazia or South Ossetia?
"I tried being reasonable. Didn't like it" (Clint Eastwood)
- Ghostwriter
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Re: Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
What next, how long, and what if...
Some interesting hypothetical questions here on the future of western solidarity in support of Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61237762
Some interesting hypothetical questions here on the future of western solidarity in support of Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61237762
- Freightdog
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Re: Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
Anchor Moy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:02 pm What next, how long, and what if...
Some interesting hypothetical questions here on the future of western solidarity in support of Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61237762
There’s a few interesting questions which will be open very much to subjective opinion and emotions.BBC think piece wrote: But what is the longer-term aim? A cessation of hostilities, of course. But must Russia be defeated? Must Ukraine win? What would defeat and victory look like in practical terms? UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson told MPs last week: "We must simply do everything we can collectively to ensure that Vladimir Putin fails, and fails comprehensively."
But what does "fail" mean? Mr Johnson did not say. One thing he did reject was pushing for regime change in Moscow. "It is very important… that we do not make it an objective to remove the Russian leader or to change politics in Russia," he said. "This is about protecting the people of Ukraine. Putin will try to frame it as a struggle between him and the West, but we cannot accept that."
With the gulf war in Kuwait resulting in the Iraqi’s being defeated, but hostilities mostly ending at the border; iraq was sufficiently defeated. The home team and allies won.
Translate that to the Ukraine/Russia conflict-
Ukraine must be seen as the victors, and with European neighbours as close allies. Even in the event of a negotiated ceasefire, and withdrawal, Ukraine must be seen as coming out on top.
Taking the fight back into Russia? While it is without doubt justified to attack Russian targets within Russia, I would sincerely hope that emotions are sufficiently restrained as to allow the war to end with Russia tucking tail, going home to lick its wounds, and suffer the huge fallout that it’s created for itself.
And Russia really has created a lot of economic and social issues for itself. It’s also largely displayed that it really isn’t up to the task that it has set itself, and quite probably isn’t up to the task of civil defence. Not yet routed, the dying vestiges of a political and social position that should have ended last century.
Regime change needs to come from within, and quite likely the seeds for this are now set. 3 decades ago, Russian military was part of a regime change in Moscow. The USSR didn’t really end, though. It just changed management for something even more greedy and parasitic.
What must not happen is for Russia to become united against an outside aggressor. Quite clearly, many of the average citizens don’t really have a firm grasp of what’s going on. Let the frontline troops return home, and fuel the dissent. Bring a realisation back into everyday homes that they were lied to. A lot of poorer regions, very much remote from Moscow, are going to know of someone in their neighbourhoods who hasn’t returned home. The anger that comes from that needs to be directed at the kremlin; Putin and his cronies.
Re-assigning Russian wealth from oligarchs to a rebuild in Ukraine would be ideal. Many of these plutocrats are there because of this very regime. So either they die with it, (presuming that they’re not being turned on by the regime) or they come to the realisation that their position will be untenable, sacrifice large proportions of their wealth towards a rebuild, and help bring about a significant change in Russia to be something much more agreeable.
Those same funds providing jobs and resources for Ukraine.
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Re: Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
Thought that this opinion piece is also worth a read. Thinking ahead. What is the goal for pro-Ukrainians ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssia-talks
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssia-talks
- cautious colin
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Re: Do you support Ukraine or Russia?
Yes, sensibly written piece. The issue is and has always been this:Anchor Moy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:17 am Thought that this opinion piece is also worth a read. Thinking ahead. What is the goal for pro-Ukrainians ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssia-talks
Which goes back to the war of attrition they are currently inThe trouble is, there are only two ways to stop the war quickly, and neither is palatable to most western leaders.
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