Negativity towards expats

ego bibere nimis · Post by **ego bibere nimis** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:01 pm

mekongme wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:24 am I haven't heard this, and generally foreigners who contribute to society are respected.
Although. (I am generalising) consider the riverside expat area
Drunk expats fighting amongst themselves and locals
Speaking rudely to staff
Not learning and understanding their cultures and beliefs
Not learning their language, at least the basics
Accusing locals of theft and lacking intelligence
Sitting in bars all day drinking 50c beers until they can barely walk.
So many foreigners are an embarrassment, and when my business partner and I had a meeting in the area, he asked me why I would want to live in such an area. (I don't live in riverside, but he was asking why the attraction for foreigners)
Think for a moment, when Asians come to our respective countrys. I still remember the rude and disrespectful comments about them..
I believe i am a guest in this great country, and try my best to understand and respect their culture and differences. I truly believe, this is one of the best countries in the world to live, and appreciate my time and the people here.
I believe we should shift our thinking towards assimilation, before we end up like the foreigner in Thailand.

"when my business partner and I had a meeting in the area" In Sydney, you probably wouldn't have a meeting in Kings cross. In London, probably not SOHO. In Bangkok, not soi 4. Riverside is largely a red-light district full of hookers and Johns. If that's the reference point, then yeah - 'we' look less than ideal hanging around there (drinking 50c beers) and I imagine locals have a low opinion of us. Outside of the red light districts however, give respect and get respect. Never had a problem. Here or Thailand.

Post by **Freightdog** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:17 pm

Barang may not be technically correct, because it more accurately means French, but from a colonial point of view, it’s easy to see how the term could become a generalisation, a reference to whitey, European, foreigner. I wonder if there’s a similar reference in Indonesia, in relation to Dutch and Europeans? In the UK, we refer to the frogs, and in the past, my French colleagues have referred to the roast beefs. In some cases, its unfriendly, but just as often not.

But while there’s individual disrespect from some people, as anywhere, I don’t think I’ve ever experienced any general negativity just for being a white foreigner. I’ve certainly seen the reverse; gross disrespect for locals by many Barang/tourists. It actually surprises me a little that the behaviour of certain types of tourists in and around Daun Penh hasn’t generated more disdain for the expat community. My circle of acquaintances and friends from the expat community is quite small as a result.

The terms that are in use by Khmers to refer to me are fairly varied, dependent upon who and how I met people, or how I was later introduced.
Among the other half’s family, in the provinces, I’m តា (da) meaning grandpa, apparently. But not Chida, which is sort of a relief.
I gather this is how some of the younger cousins and nieces/nephews refer to me; Da-Mak. Grandpa Mark. Often, t’s used to mean me by swmbo’s sisters when used in conversation about me.
But the parents of these kids also call me bong mak. Neighbours who know of me have referred to me as bong-Barang, while they scrabble for a better term, or try to remember my name from a year before.
Papa-chhkuot is a name which stuck among a particular group of friends when I first arrived in Phnom Penh nearly 4 years ago. They initially called me Papa, and crazy was one of the first words I learned. It’s also carried over to be used by our kids, occasionally.

Most folks who don’t know me are simply curious at first. If they know of me, but don’t know me yet, I get respect, in the form of Samphea. I return respect. We recently moved to Tuol Sangkae, and in both of the local breakfast cafes I’m greeted casually, even though we’re not daily customers.

Something I’ve come to appreciate a little, which still is alien to me is the casual nature that the Khmer have to things that we (Barang) might consider important. Like peoples names, or being specific about things. My other half doesn’t really know the names of some of the closer nieces. They’re just the kids of her sisters. Even when the kid is in his twenties, and his wife is about to have a child, and we were at the wedding. Certain individual children stand out, though. And everyone refers to my lad by his actual name, when other children are known very much more generally.
It’s easy to judge Khmer daily attitudes from a barang perspective. And get it wrong.

John Bingham · Post by **John Bingham** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:31 pm

ego bibere nimis wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:01 pm In Sydney, you probably wouldn't have a meeting in Kings cross. In London, probably not SOHO.

Off topic but Soho is no longer the sleazy place it used to be. It is the center of the film/advertisement production industry in London and there are plenty of very respectable establishments to have meetings there.

As for being addressed by locals, my neighbor's all call me Papa + (my kid's name).

Post by **Freightdog** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:41 pm

John Bingham wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:31 pm As for being addressed by locals, my neighbor's all call me Papa + (my kid's name).

This seems to be quite consistent with how we’ve integrated, or not. We (those Caucasian expats) will likely always be barang, (which I don’t take to be in any way dismissive or derisive as a term.). What matters is whether we’re part of the community, and that’s largely down to us, isn’t it?

mannanman · Post by **mannanman** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:02 pm

If it’s any consolation other Asians don’t get treated any different to us, good or bad.
Same as if a Frenchy visits the UK “That French bloke” or if there’s a bloke you’re describing who’s black “You know, the black geeza”. It’s just a description.

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:09 pm

siliconlife wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:24 am There's a big difference between how someone addresses you, and how someone talks about you,

Sure, but sometimes they talk about you and you can hear it. That's what I base myself on.

siliconlife wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:24 am and also between how people you know and don't know talk about you. I can guarantee all of those posters, they are certainly being called "barang" very frequently, and categorized as such even more frequently.

Sure, the random kid racing by on his bike will shout at me me 'Hello Barang what your name' but I don't count those encounters.

I live in a relatively small village, I've lived there for seven years now, and the villagers will generally talk about me as 'Pa <name kid>' as far as I can see. My wife's family will refer to me as 'bong' or 'Pa <insert name cone>'. Maybe my experience is different because i don't live in a major city and my Khmer is pretty decent, meaning I can easily understand what is being said.

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:12 pm

mannanman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 3:43 pm
Kammekor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:00 am Whenever someone calls you Barang and it bothers you just reply with '<insert word to refer to the person, bong, om, ee, yay...> Khmer' or even better '<insert> Yuon' (which is slang for Vietnamese) and then apologize for using the wrong nationality. After that they will never call you Barang again but use the correct nationality when referring to you because most Cambodians are very proud to be Khmer and want to be called 'Khmer', not Asian or another nationality.
I wouldn’t go around calling anyone Youn (which is in self offensive) to anyone. Some locals have Vietnamese heritage and some are actually 100% Vietnamese but to us they look and speak like locals.

Really bad idea!

The word Yuon isn't banned, and if you dislike it use Lao, Vietnam or Thai, just to express them calling you 'French' is just as silly as you calling them another nationality. My experience is you can say a lot as long as you say it with a smile and it's clear you're joking.

Singapore Slinger · Post by **Singapore Slinger** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:21 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:46 am
orichá wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:34 am However, there's one thing that cannot be categorized as positive or negative -- the simple strange fact that ALL Cambodians ALWAYS refer to foreigners and expats as 'farang' or 'barang' ...Even if you have a long-term relationship with someone, or their family -- I am sure -- when you are not around, someone among them will still use this term, 'farang', in reference to you. This recognition mechanism is such a strange thing among Khmer people; I think it reveals the extent to which they are insulated from the outside world by their language and culture... You are a farang/barang first, not a person, lol... Like or not, that is the way it is here...
Not my experience. While it's extremely uncommon to call someone by his or her name, I don't think I'm being referred to as 'Barang' (anymore). Usually it's either 'bong' (which is very in-precise) or 'Pa followed by the name of my kid'. The latter is a very common way to refer to people. I can't remember the last time I was refered to as 'Barang' (Khmer never use the word Farang).

Farang is Thai and short for Farangse which is their best pronunciation of Frankish the old word for French,even worse is Mun which literally means It in Thai!

mannanman · Post by **mannanman** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:24 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:12 pm
mannanman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 3:43 pm
Kammekor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:00 am Whenever someone calls you Barang and it bothers you just reply with '<insert word to refer to the person, bong, om, ee, yay...> Khmer' or even better '<insert> Yuon' (which is slang for Vietnamese) and then apologize for using the wrong nationality. After that they will never call you Barang again but use the correct nationality when referring to you because most Cambodians are very proud to be Khmer and want to be called 'Khmer', not Asian or another nationality.
I wouldn’t go around calling anyone Youn (which is in self offensive) to anyone. Some locals have Vietnamese heritage and some are actually 100% Vietnamese but to us they look and speak like locals.

Really bad idea!
The word Yuon isn't banned, and if you dislike it use Lao, Vietnam or Thai, just to express them calling you 'French' is just as silly as you calling them another nationality. My experience is you can say a lot as long as you say it with a smile and it's clear you're joking.

Never said the word was banned just you can’t just throw it about.
You may think when you smile and they smile it’s them taking it as a joke but the reality is they’re embarrassed, either for you or themselves.

Who cares if they call us barang. We call ourselves it and they do it because how would they know where we are from unless you tell them, in Khmer.

If you were a German in Australia you wouldn’t be going around asking if they were a Kiwi if they said you were a Pom!

John Bingham · Post by **John Bingham** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:43 pm

There have been many studies about it but I don't think anyone really knows where the phrases "farang/barang" really came from. In Thailand it's often more like "falang" because many can't seem to pronounce "r" sounds.

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