how do u all stand on Neil Young and Jodi Mitchell pulling their music off Spotify>?

Anchor Moy · Post by **Anchor Moy** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:55 pm

nerdlinger wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:11 pm
What happened to “facts not feelings”?

Yeah,I know. "Facts not feelings", and "information not entertainment" - it's so old-fashioned.

I feel like such an old weirdo because when I want medical advice, I ask doctors, you know, those people who spend a long time learning to specialise in medicine. And if my doctor doesn't know enough to help me, then he sends me to a specialist, who does know. Or who tells me if they don't know.

I do not ask medical advice from my Great-Aunt Jeannie, or a guy who shouts me drinks at Harry's, or my tuktuk driver, nor do I listen to some random guy on podcasts. But that's just me.

nerdlinger · Post by **nerdlinger** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:31 pm

Anchor Moy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:55 pm I feel like such an old weirdo because when I want medical advice, I ask doctors, you know, those people who spend a long time learning to specialise in medicine. And if my doctor doesn't know enough to help me, then he sends me to a specialist, who does know. Or who tells me if they don't know.

Yup. And if I did think my doctor could be mistaken, the place I’d go to for more opinions would be more doctors.

I think the other thing we’re seeing at play is Category Error. So the way science works is a bunch of scientists research and publish something, and if it looks wrong then some more scientists will check their working out and publish something correcting it, and then more scientists will check that group’s working out, and so on and so forth. And far from being a religious orthodoxy, these scientists are personally and professionally incentivised to find mistakes in each other’s work.

So, if you don’t want to just “blindly accept” what “the scientists” publish in a report, there’s plenty of other scientists that are WAY WAY WAY more qualified than you to examine their findings and call out anything questionable in that report.
But if you’ve made the category error of lumping all scientists worldwide into one homogeneous group, then it’s easier to make the mistake of labelling the “science” as only “one side of the story” that needs to be checked by laymen in order to find the “real” truth.

tightenupvolume1 · Post by **tightenupvolume1** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:00 am

To be fair Neil has seen "The needle and the damage done"

Fewa Tel · Post by **Fewa Tel** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:38 am

There's more to the picture , than meets the eye,
Politicians inform the masses to get vaxed , as to follow the expert advice from science.
Hey, hey, my, my, the same politicians deny climate change, as the science is wrong,
You pay for this, but they give you that,
And once your gone, you ain't never coming back.

Big Daikon · Post by **Big Daikon** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:43 am

nerdlinger wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:24 pm It’s a really major problem that science educators have now, that people really do believe that there are “always 2 sides of every story”. The notion that you should listen to what professional researchers say about something, and then listen to what a bunch of attention-hungry blowhards and politicians say about it, and then decide for yourself which version sounds best to you.
It’s particularly specious because it tricks you into believing you’re engaging in critical thinking when in fact you’re doing nothing of the sort.

No, there are not always 2 sides to every story.

COVID is one big example of this, but I see this misunderstanding of science frequently.

1. Many uneducated people don't understand scientific research and dismiss things they don't understand or like. Science at its best is self-correcting, with new data and thus new conclusions being published. This can be confusing and seem contradictory to many.

2. People with university degrees (I hesitate to call them educated) often spend years learning about deconstructionism, gender theory, cultural/moral relativism and the like. They don't really contribute constructively to these conversations, either.

Throw in political biases, Big Pharma money, etc. and no wonder a nation can't have sane or civil discussions.

To end on a lighter note, here's Joe Rogan having some non-political fun.

SlowJoe · Post by **SlowJoe** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:16 am

nerdlinger wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:11 pm
SlowJoe wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:14 pm But even if I were hardcore pro-vax and not spewing whatever I read in the headlines, I'd consider changing my tune because of people like you. Learn some tact for christ's sake...
Tact? It’s not like I’ve called you names or accused you of manslaughter or anything like that. You’d refuse life saving medical treatment because someone on the internet made you feel bad when they corrected you? How fragile is your ego?

What happened to “facts not feelings”?

I don't want to clog up the thread with banter, so I'll say this.

I state something I know as fact (because my mother and sister are both US medical practitioners, OB-GYN and Family Practice and are very much a part of the US medical system), and my girlfriend is also still back in San Francisco so I'm very much aware of what's actually happening on the ground in the US.

But you think I made that all up because, "facts"? Where are your facts? From what point of authority are you talking from? Your own headlines?

The entire reason I am skeptical of the whole vax campaign is BECAUSE of medical professional's advice. But I guess they don't matter to you for whatever reason because...facts?

Okay, I'll stop for the sake of others. Sorry, carry on.

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:46 am

Joe Rogan: Four claims from his Spotify podcast fact-checked
Joe Rogan has been criticised for helping spread misinformation on his podcast.

Someone mentioned on the other thread that they had covid an someone suggested Ivermectin read this fact check

Claim: Ivermectin can cure Covid

This claim was made on an episode last year featuring Bret Weinstein, an American author and professor of biology, who said: "Ivermectin alone is capable of driving this pathogen to extinction."

BBC Reality Check looked at a series of research papers claiming to show the effectiveness of this drug in treating Covid.

Many were very low quality, and in some cases the data had been clearly manipulated.

If you look only at rigorously carried out studies, there is no evidence of the drug's effectiveness.

Campaigners often cherry-pick positive examples and ignore the fact that many countries which relied heavily on ivermectin, like Brazil and Peru, had some of the worst death tolls from the virus.

The world-leading experts on reviewing medical evidence, Cochrane, concluded based on just these reliable trials that there was "insufficient evidence" to recommend the drug.

https://www.bbc.com/news/60199614?piano-modal

Ryan754326 · Post by **Ryan754326** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:54 am

As far as my own opinion goes, there’s nothing I can say that hasn’t already been said here.

I just want to say thank you to this forum for keeping the conversation open.
I was recently banned from another popular SEA forum, after I questioned a moderator for removing several of my posts concerning covid, that he thought were “irrelevant to the conversation”.
I said nothing disrespectful, didn’t post anything that could be considered misinformation or from a dubious source, and had never at any time pushed an anti-vax stance, but it was becoming quite apparent that my differing opinion on certain topics wasn’t appreciated by some members there.
Unfortunately, for me, I hadn’t read the fine print in their forum rules, and publicly questioning a moderator is strictly prohibited.

It seems like a much more level-headed crew on CEO, and we’re even allowed to use bad words here, so thanks again for providing a free place to have a conversation.

Now, back to the topic of discussion…

Big Daikon · Post by **Big Daikon** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:38 pm

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:46 am Joe Rogan: Four claims from his Spotify podcast fact-checked
Joe Rogan has been criticised for helping spread misinformation on his podcast.

Someone mentioned on the other thread that they had covid an someone suggested Ivermectin read this fact check

Claim: Ivermectin can cure Covid
This claim was made on an episode last year featuring Bret Weinstein, an American author and professor of biology, who said: "Ivermectin alone is capable of driving this pathogen to extinction."

BBC Reality Check looked at a series of research papers claiming to show the effectiveness of this drug in treating Covid.

Many were very low quality, and in some cases the data had been clearly manipulated.

If you look only at rigorously carried out studies, there is no evidence of the drug's effectiveness.

Campaigners often cherry-pick positive examples and ignore the fact that many countries which relied heavily on ivermectin, like Brazil and Peru, had some of the worst death tolls from the virus.

The world-leading experts on reviewing medical evidence, Cochrane, concluded based on just these reliable trials that there was "insufficient evidence" to recommend the drug.

https://www.bbc.com/news/60199614?piano-modal

OTOH, Japanese researchers found ivermectin shows an "antiviral effect" against Omicron. Not "effective", mind you.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL1N2UB0AV

(Corrects headline and first paragraph to remove reference to the drug being effective in treating against Omicron in Phase III clinical trials)

TOKYO, Jan 31 (Reuters) - Japanese trading and pharmaceutical company Kowa Co Ltd said on Monday anti-parasite drug ivermectin showed an “antiviral effect” against Omicron and other variants of coronavirus in joint non-clinical research.

nerdlinger · Post by **nerdlinger** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:57 pm

Big Daikon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:38 pm OTOH, Japanese researchers found ivermectin shows an "antiviral effect" against Omicron. Not "effective", mind you.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL1N2UB0AV
(Corrects headline and first paragraph to remove reference to the drug being effective in treating against Omicron in Phase III clinical trials)

TOKYO, Jan 31 (Reuters) - Japanese trading and pharmaceutical company Kowa Co Ltd said on Monday anti-parasite drug ivermectin showed an “antiviral effect” against Omicron and other variants of coronavirus in joint non-clinical research.

They’ve not even published yet as far as I can tell. The only link there is to the test protocols, and story says the company provided no other details. I don’t think there’s enough there to warrant an “OTOH” yet.

how do u all stand on Neil Young and Jodi Mitchell pulling their music off Spotify>?

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