Pizzalover wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:05 pm

MaxNormal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:58 am I popped in the restrictions thread and linked to this article: https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50939880/c ... siem-reap/ and queried that there is no mention of extension of the coloured zones which are/were up for review today.

As SR residents, if anybody hears further about the coloured closures, could you pop that info in this or the other thread. There are a few of us keen to hear as soon as possible so we can make plans or shop or prepare further for more staycation... :S

That's a different pair of shoes. Some local expats declared this to be the end of the red zone but, of course, they knowingly misrepresent things. The decision on the red zones is due for Friday or Saturday.
It looks bad as the orange zones keep growing:
https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50940569/m ... -19-cases/

Thank you for the clarification on timing. I'm just at a loss as to understand the thinking and logic behind things... then I remember, I'm in Cambodia now...

For a country that has some of the highest vaccination rates and articles about herd immunity backed up by numbers;

https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50939407/c ... accinated/

Maybe it is my ignorance of epidemiology or greater data, but if the country reaches herd immunity/really good vaccination coverage, there is not much more that can be done. (This and the following comment is relevant to current KOW zones and restrictions, but really applies to every country in the world)

The virus isn't going to go away, it will be in the environment of every country permanently for the foreseeable future. If vaccines don't stop you contracting, or carrying about the virus, but do reduce the severity/risk to life, then once that critical number of 75/80% on two shots of vaccine is reached, do countries not just have to suck it up and accept the remaining losses? If countries continue to test and lock down/restrict places where there are numbers, then we really will never see an end... The virus will always be around in some form, and so people will test positive for it, everywhere in every country in some number or another. Is the scientific/developed world approach/attitude to this refelecting this? I know the UK is opening up and has ruled out any further lockdowns, which seems to echo my thoughts above...

If Cambodia is so far along with its vaccine program and the ratio of deaths to survival continues to get better and better, there really is no need for zones or restrictions. Just open up internally, then when ready, to vaccinated people from outside also, and let the chips fall where they may... I feel like that's maybe callous, but at the same time, I don't see any other way out after a successful vaccination program...

MaxNormal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:26 pm The virus isn't going to go away, it will be in the environment of every country permanently for the foreseeable future. If vaccines don't stop you contracting, or carrying about the virus, but do reduce the severity/risk to life, then once that critical number of 75/80% on two shots of vaccine is reached, do countries not just have to suck it up and accept the remaining losses? If countries continue to test and lock down/restrict places where there are numbers, then we really will never see an end... The virus will always be around in some form, and so people will test positive for it, everywhere in every country in some number or another. Is the scientific/developed world approach/attitude to this refelecting this? I know the UK is opening up and has ruled out any further lockdowns, which seems to echo my thoughts above...

If Cambodia is so far along with its vaccine program and the ratio of deaths to survival continues to get better and better, there really is no need for zones or restrictions. Just open up internally, then when ready, to vaccinated people from outside also, and let the chips fall where they may... I feel like that's maybe callous, but at the same time, I don't see any other way out after a successful vaccination program...

I'm no expert, but for me, the overriding factor concerning all of this by far is how long the efficacy rate of the vaccines last. Different virus vaccines have vastly different efficacy longevities. Measles for example lasts pretty much a lifetime. Flu on the other hand, about a year. We haven't had time to properly assess how long these covid vaccines last. We know that antibodies are greatly reduced after just a few months but that doesn't necessarily mean the vaccines become less effective. We just don't know. If people start dropping dead in the numbers they did at the start of the pandemic, then no, things cannot go back to normal and no, we can't just 'live with the virus'.

Returning to some sort of normality rests on only two things. 1 - That the vaccines continue to prevent people from getting very sick or dying an 2 - If not, that booster shots are offered on a regular basis and are shown to provide enough adequate protection that makes it possible to 'just live with it'.

Otherwise we're back to square one.

I just saw on FB that someone claimed it would end today. My understanding is that the red zone decision is valid until Friday (inclusive) and also until a new decision has been passed. Given that people are getting arrested by now, it might be advisable to be a bit conservative with the deadline and stay indoors.

I m also no health professional. However, we need to keep in mind that the 98% success rate of the vaccination campaign applies to the 10 Mill targeted people and NOT to the entire population. So we look at a 2/3 vaccination rate which is too low for stopping covid and certainly the Delta variant.

Right now I am looking outside and see traffic, no official vehicles. They cant be going to the hospital, at least not all of them. Some will be food supply services. The neighbors, locals, give a fuck. Most moving around is now 9 pm to 5 am.

xandreu wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:38 pm I'm no expert, but for me, the overriding factor concerning all of this by far is how long the efficacy rate of the vaccines last. Different virus vaccines have vastly different efficacy longevities. Measles for example lasts pretty much a lifetime. Flu on the other hand, about a year.

The flu vaccine doesn't "last" a year. Every year, protections for new flu strains are added to it. Similarly, there could be enhanced vaccines in the future for Covid. We have made huge strides against Covid so far with these vaccines, and if they offer an advanced new one next year, I'll be standing in line.

All kinda OT for this thread though.

Pizzalover wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:43 pm I just saw on FB that someone claimed it would end today. My understanding is that the red zone decision is valid until Friday

This, and the last few posts sum up a significant part of the problem.
People talk all sorts of shit on facebook so it's not to be trusted yet it seems the government has been rolling out official announcements on it. Word of mouth then prevails and things get distorted.

Assuming it was officially announced, it's clear than many got caught and didn't know it was coming. And no one knows when it's safe to go out!

For the last few months, people have been guessing on the illegality of alcohol based on the presence or not of "SORRY, WE DO NOT SELL ALCOHOL" signs in Angkor supermarkets. (Next to their latest wine promotion!)

Cambo Dear wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:19 pm Screw that - if the vaccines work, why lock down; if lockdowns work, why vaccinate? At some point, we're all going to have to accept there is a new type of flu that some (very, very few) people are susceptible to and may die from. That usually means that they are in their 80's and would have succumbed to an illness - any illness that came their way at that time. Locking up healthy people and preventing children from accessing education and other social outlets is sadistic.

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I think its pretty clear that while the Chinese vaccines administered here in Siem Reap are effective at preventing most severe illness and death they aren't preventing the spread in any significant way. Cases were nearing 500 a day when they declared the red zone and from what my wife has been told the vast majority of those cases were being discovered at the hospitals as people went to seek care - they weren't "near death" but not in good shape either and there simply isn't much medical capacity here in SR to deal with it.

They posted a new map for next week. Some of the red zones are now yellow (or orange couldn't tell when I looked) but there are still a few red zones and none of the yellow zones went away. So basically another week with some folks moving from red to yellow.

TWY wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:08 pm

Cambo Dear wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:19 pm Screw that - if the vaccines work, why lock down; if lockdowns work, why vaccinate? At some point, we're all going to have to accept there is a new type of flu that some (very, very few) people are susceptible to and may die from. That usually means that they are in their 80's and would have succumbed to an illness - any illness that came their way at that time. Locking up healthy people and preventing children from accessing education and other social outlets is sadistic.

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I think its pretty clear that while the Chinese vaccines administered here in Siem Reap are effective at preventing most severe illness and death they aren't preventing the spread in any significant way. Cases were nearing 500 a day when they declared the red zone and from what my wife has been told the vast majority of those cases were being discovered at the hospitals as people went to seek care - they weren't "near death" but not in good shape either and there simply isn't much medical capacity here in SR to deal with it.

None of the vaccinations can prevent spread, they reduce the chance that you'll need to be admitted to hospital, thus relieving the pressure on healthcare systems. It is here to stay, it is endemic and the choice now is either accept that and crack on or don't accept that and keep your society in perpetual states of house arrest and allow the possibility of a few deaths destroy the lives of millions. Whatever happened to the ethical stance of 'for the many, not the few'??

On September 23, 2021, the Siem Reap Provincial Administration will continue to determine the red zone in Slor Kram Sangkat and some villages of Svay Dangkum Sangkat, Kork Chak Sangkat, Chreav Sangkat, Sala Kamroeuk Sangkat, Srang Nge Commune and Teuk Vil Sangkat, Siem Reap City, Siem Reap Province for 7 days from 23:59 on September 23 to September 30, 2021 in order to ensure the effective control of the spread of Kovid-19 disease in the closed area And prevent the disease from spreading to other areas until a new decision is made.

lockdowns, curfews only work if 100% of the population follows it.