Evergrande: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

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Apollo91881
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Re: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by Apollo91881 »

clutchcargo wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:24 pm So the PRC bailed out Evergrande saving them from bankruptcy and propping them up..

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Evergrande Group’s Life in Venice real estate and tourism development in Qidong, Jiangsu province.

If this is the sort of thing they're building, good luck to them. 'Life in Venice' :lol: fugly cookie cutter condos. :facepalm: :wtf: :no:
Wait until they finish reclaiming the bay by the Sihanoukville airport. I’m sure we’ll see more of that here.
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nemo
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Re: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by nemo »

Not a full bail out. SOME creditors have been given promises that they will be paid.
Staves off the evil of full default briefly.
The gov will have to get behind this in a big way to resolve it.
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IraHayes
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Re: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by IraHayes »

clutchcargo wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:24 pm So the PRC bailed out Evergrande saving them from bankruptcy and propping them up..

Image
Evergrande Group’s Life in Venice real estate and tourism development in Qidong, Jiangsu province.

If this is the sort of thing they're building, good luck to them. 'Life in Venice' :lol: fugly cookie cutter condos. :facepalm: :wtf: :no:
"Kicking the can down the road"

Nothing has actually been fixed and all those other real estate developers who are in a similar situation to Evergrande have now been given the green light to continue as normal as the PRC will bail them out if their business plan goes tits-up.
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Random Dude
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Re: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by Random Dude »

If this is the sort of thing they're building, good luck to them. 'Life in Venice' :lol: fugly cookie cutter condos.
That's what you see everywhere in China, big communities full of identical - on the outside at least - apartment buildings. Talk about fugly... the older ones are hideous.
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Re: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by Random Dude »

IraHayes wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:52 pm
clutchcargo wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:24 pm So the PRC bailed out Evergrande saving them from bankruptcy and propping them up..

Image
Evergrande Group’s Life in Venice real estate and tourism development in Qidong, Jiangsu province.

If this is the sort of thing they're building, good luck to them. 'Life in Venice' :lol: fugly cookie cutter condos. :facepalm: :wtf: :no:
"Kicking the can down the road"

Nothing has actually been fixed and all those other real estate developers who are in a similar situation to Evergrande have now been given the green light to continue as normal as the PRC will bail them out if their business plan goes tits-up.
It's hard to see how they can carry on as usual, the way they seem to work is by pre-selling apartments, using the deposit paid to finance the construction and hoping they sell enough to finish the job. After the Evergrande thing I'd assume a lot of home buyers would be sceptical about paying up front for the promise of a home to be built.
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Re: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by CEOCambodiaNews »

Could Evergrande’s Contagion Wreck Cambodia’s Property Sector?
Over the past decade, the country’s property market has become heavily reliant on inward flows of Chinese investment.
By David Hutt
September 30, 2021

In what some pundits are calling China’s “Lehman moment,” one of the country’s largest property developers is on the brink of defaulting on more than $300 billion worth of debt. China Evergrande Group received a slight reprieve last week when it was able to make a bond repayment to local investors, but its market value has crashed by around 80 percent over the past year and the chances of the company’s collapse haven’t been written off, possibly bringing down parts of China’s property and financial sector with it.

Picking apart Evergrande’s potential collapse has occupied the minds of economists for the past few weeks, with some describing it as an event waiting to happen. “The problem with Evergrande is that it is not an anecdote, but a symptom of a model based on leveraged growth and seeking to inflate GDP at any cost with ghost cities, unused infrastructure, and wild construction,” one commentator argued.

Ditto for Cambodia, which since the early 2010s has seen its own property market boom, thanks in large part to considerable investment from China and at-any-costs development built on the back of soaring debt. For years, analysts have warned about the risks of Cambodia’s “property bubble” imploding. Even before the COVID-19 pandemic began, a stroll around Phnom Penh or the coastal city of Sihanoukville, the hub of Chinese investment, would reveal entire condominiums without a single lit apartment.

Spiraling prices meant most new-builds were way too costly for ordinary Cambodians, while the Phnom Penh grapevine buzzed with rumors that much of the property boom was funded by money laundering and corruption, with overseas investors pouring their money into a country that also uses the US dollar. (Cambodia was ranked as the 16th worst country in the world for money laundering in the 2019 Basel Anti-Money Laundering Index.) Since 2018, the government and skeptics in the industry have called on developers to focus on affordable homes, catered to local buyers, not overseas investors. Little progress was made, chiefly because of the sums developers could draw from mostly-Chinese investors, with the proceeds funneled back into new developments, a scheme that depended on a constant flow of inward investment.

“I’m not sure there’ll be contagion [from Evergrande in Cambodia] but the business model of putting up low quality condos that no one is ever likely to live in needs to stop,” said Stephen Higgins, managing partner at Mekong Strategic Partners, an advisory firm. “Other than a few high quality projects, I wouldn’t go near a condo investment in Phnom Penh,” he added.
In full: https://thediplomat.com/2021/09/could-e ... ty-sector/
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Re: Evergrande: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by SternAAlbifrons »

Evergrande: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

What a bunch of absolute horse shit.
Along with "We gonna wump them in the war. Bring it on, Sloppies"

ffs Get real.
Look at our financial situation - and the record of the West in war for the past 7o years.

'Any cool heads capable of realistic analysis out there?
I'm sick to death of all this mindless propaganda. Not just because it is so stupid - but because it looses us wars and will bankrupt our kids.

(tip - look at OUR bank statement, fellow Stupids)


:stir:
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Re: Evergrande: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by nemo »

Evergrande shares suspended on The HK Exchange.
No reason given so far.
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Re: Evergrande: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by mannanman »

SternAAlbifrons wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:08 am Evergrande: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

What a bunch of absolute horse shit.
Along with "We gonna wump them in the war. Bring it on, Sloppies"

ffs Get real.
Look at our financial situation - and the record of the West in war for the past 7o years.

'Any cool heads capable of realistic analysis out there?
I'm sick to death of all this mindless propaganda. Not just because it is so stupid - but because it looses us wars and will bankrupt our kids.

(tip - look at OUR bank statement, fellow Stupids)


:stir:
Not sure if you’re playing devils advocate but I think China (PRC) know exactly what they are doing.

Along with the Jews they’re top gold economists and very smart. Been like that for centuries.
People of the world, spice up your life.
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Re: Evergrande: The Beginning of China’s Economic Collapse?

Post by CEOCambodiaNews »

Shares in China property firm Evergrande suspended pending ‘major transaction’
Trading halt sends markets Asian stocks falling amid speculation debt-laden group will sell off property management arm
Ben Butler and agencies
Mon 4 Oct 2021 08.13 BST

Trading in shares of debt-laden China Evergrande has been suspended by the Hong Kong exchange after the enormous Chinese developer missed a key bond interest payment last week, its second offshore debt obligation in a week.

Evergrande, which has $305bn (£225bn) of debts, said on Monday trade was suspended “pending the release by the company of an announcement containing inside information about a major transaction”, sparking speculation it could sell its profitable property management unit.

Global Times, the Chinese state newspaper, reported that a rival property company, Hopson Development, was planning to buy a 51% stake in Evergrande’s property management unit for more than $5bn.

With liabilities equal to 2% of China’s GDP, Evergrande has triggered concerns its woes could spread through the financial system and reverberate around the world.

The cash-strapped group said on 30 September that its wealth management unit had made a 10% repayment of wealth management products, which are largely owned by Chinese retail investors, that were due by the same date.

Evergrande’s treatment of foreign investors contrasts with the way it manages its onshore liabilities.

The two offshore payments, which bondholders said failed to arrive by their due date, come as the company, which has nearly $20bn in offshore debt, faces deadlines on US dollar-denomnated bond coupon payments totalling $162.38m in the next month.

Offshore investors holding about US$19bn in bonds are likely to bear the brunt of any restructuring, with analysts predicting they could receive as little as 25¢ in the dollar.

“Looks like the property management unit is the easiest to dispose in the grand scheme of things, indicative of the company trying to generate near term cash,” said the OCBC analyst Ezien Hoo.

“I’m not sure this necessarily means that the company has given up on surviving, especially as selling an asset means they are still trying to raise cash to pay the bills.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... nts-missed
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