Marriage thread. September 2021

Post by **Freightdog** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:34 pm

PSD-Kiwi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:03 pm
If you're an old man/woman with no intention on having kids, purchasing property, living long-term then no need to bother...but, if young and/or if planning to reside here permanently/long-term, have kids, purchase property then there are benefits, here's a few just off the top of my head, sure there's more...

- Pathway to Citizenship: After 3 years legally married and living together, in Cambodia, to a Cambodian citizen foreigners are eligible to apply for Cambodian citizenship.

- Ease of obtaining Extension of Stay: For those who don't work/own a business in Cambodia, and are unable to/don't want to obtain an ER (Retirement) EOS, the DoI does issue EB (Business) EOS's to foreigners who are legally married in Cambodia to Cambodian Citizens. The DoI are also looking at introducing a marriage/family type Visa EOS category.

- Property Ownership: …
the Foreigners name is included on the property title and the property cannot be sold without the authorisation of both parties.

- Property Inheritance:
(*NOTE: Property ownership is not permitted If under 18 years of age, so don't automatically assume your kids will inherit any property)

- Asset Inheritance: In the event the Cambodian partner passes away, the legal foreigner partner is eligible to inherit any other assets under the Cambodian partner's name ie. funds in bank accounts, vehicles, etc. If not married, then no entitlement unless there is a legal Will which specifies otherwise.

Disclaimer: None of the above should be considered legally binding advice

For myself and my family, (it’s my understanding of) the property and inheritance issues that makes it worthwhile doing in Cambodia, as mentioned in the above guidance by PSD-kiwi. Otherwise, it’s a ball-ache, and I’d just as soon do it in the UK, if at all. I get on fairly well with most of the other half’s family, in the main. But I believe I know exactly what would happen, should the worst happen.

For certain job prospects, there’s a need for us to be married to facilitate the family living together. Company provided housing in the Middle East for instance, ease of visa applications for whole family when moving with jobs to certain foreign places.

PSD-Kiwi · Post by **PSD-Kiwi** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:43 pm

Freightdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:34 pm
For certain job prospects, there’s a need for us to be married to facilitate the family living together. Company provided housing in the Middle East for instance, ease of visa applications for whole family when moving with jobs to certain foreign places.

This is another very good reason, I know people who got jobs in the Middle East and South Asia which provided full family packages including visas, housing, flights, school for kids, etc., but ONLY if they were legally married. Didn't matter where they were married, but had to be legally married. In many of the Middle Eastern countries, couples are not permitted to reside together unless legally married.

The marriage process in Cambodia is actually extremely simple and inexpensive if you are organised.

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:58 pm

PSD-Kiwi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:03 pm
- Pathway to Citizenship: After 3 years legally married and living together, in Cambodia, to a Cambodian citizen foreigners are eligible to apply for Cambodian citizenship.

- Property Ownership: Any property purchased in Cambodia requires the purchasers to provide evidence of their marital status. Although the Cambodian Constitution forbids foreigners from owning property (with the exception of Strata Titled properties), if legally married in Cambodia, the Foreigners name is included on the property title and the property cannot be sold without the authorisation of both parties.

Thanks for all the info earlier.

Re first point above..You use the term 'pathway to citizenship'..are you intimating it's a tortuous affair to get this after 3yrs of marriage? Or, is it a relatively straightforward? When a foreigner attains citizenship in this way, do they get the same rights as khmers ie Cambodian passport, vote at elections, own land in your own name?

Re the second point above..I presume this is in the context that you have not yet attained citizenship as per the first point? Otherwise, I gather you could do so under your own name? Or does the Cambodian Constitution forbidding foreigners owning property still prevents that?

PSD-Kiwi · Post by **PSD-Kiwi** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:13 pm

clutchcargo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:58 pm Re first point above..You use the term 'pathway to citizenship'..are you intimating it's a tortuous affair to get this after 3yrs of marriage? Or, is it a relatively straightforward? When a foreigner attains citizenship in this way, do they get the same rights as khmers ie Cambodian passport, vote at elections, own land in your own name?

It involves a whole lot of supporting documentation, Khmer language assessment and can often take 3-4 years for the application to be approved before Citizenship is granted...unless you are willing to make a small donation ($25k speeds up the process significantly and no need to pass language assessment).
And yes, Citizenship via marriage comes with all of the same rights & benefits of regular citizenship.

clutchcargo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:58 pmRe the second point above..I presume this is in the context that you have not yet attained citizenship as per the first point?

Correct.

armchairlawyer · Post by **armchairlawyer** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:04 pm

In my experience, the main reason for barangs getting married in Cambodia is pressure from the lady who wants a big ceremony. That is not permitted without a local marriage, although "promise marry" parties can be done. The problem is she is often not satisfied with that.
My Khmer lawyer advised me that residence would not be obtainable after 3 or any number of years, absent a very sizeable donation. Without that, the advanatges of a local marriage are pretty slim. So you can block your spouse from selling your land, great so why get married to her in the first place if this is a concern.
By all means get married but preferably not in Cambodia.
Freightdog, I think you'll find you need to get a special visa in order to marry in the UK.
The best option was Hong Kong, with Singapore in second place, but we have Covid.
This actually is the best case for marrying in Cambodia atm, just that it's even more difficult elsewhere due to Covid restrictions. I' advise waiting until next year and hope HK or SG open up.
I respect PSD's views but he is in a different league from the rest of us when it comes to dealing with the bureaucracy. What is easy for him can be hellish for normal mortals.

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:17 pm

armchairlawyer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:04 pm My Khmer lawyer advised me that residence would not be obtainable after 3 or any number of years, absent a very sizeable donation. Without that, the advanatges of a local marriage are pretty slim.

For some there are hardly advantages, for others (one of) the advantages PSD mentioned outweigh the hassle.
Not everyone is in the same situation as you.

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:25 pm

For example....

You have kids (or a kid) here
You don't work / don't have a paid job / volunteer through a non-licensed NGO but want to stay for a longer time
You're not eligible for an ER extension yet
You want to make legal arrangements for your partner in case you pass away without making a will
You want to apply for Khmer citizenship

To name just a few

Post by **Freightdog** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:10 pm

armchairlawyer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:04 pm By all means get married but preferably not in Cambodia.
Freightdog, I think you'll find you need to get a special visa in order to marry in the UK.

I respect PSD's views but he is in a different league from the rest of us when it comes to dealing with the bureaucracy. What is easy for him can be hellish for normal mortals.

Yes, there is a specific visa for getting married in the UK. A visitor visa, for marriage. As I understand it, the process precludes staying longer than 6 months. And once married, they need to apply for a new visa to visit the UK, which cannot be done from the UK.
But it’s a typically UK process, resulting in a marriage that is probably not going to be recognised in Cambodia, where most of the advantages of being married are to be accessed, and requires significant expenditure, just to be in a country where neither of us actually wants to be. And no allowance is given for the kids to join us, so it’s either a short visit sans-kaun at great cost, or a longer visit sans-kaun at great cost.
With a couple of the opportunities that I’m pursuing, being married is something of a convenience, to be done while there’s little else being done. To wait until it’s needed will just be painful.

I’m not a big fan of marriage, as such. But it’s a convenient piece of paper in some places, so it makes some sense.

pauloxleyisland · Post by **pauloxleyisland** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:15 pm

armchairlawyer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:04 pm In my experience, the main reason for barangs getting married in Cambodia is pressure from the lady who wants a big ceremony. That is not permitted without a local marriage, although "promise marry" parties can be done. The problem is she is often not satisfied with that.

I fell into this category, I went through the entire process, engagement party, living with the family so they could view me, chaperones everywhere we went and the big wedding. All for the family to save face with extended family, friends and neighbours. I had ball, loved every minute of it.
No paper work just all for show, we got married again in Australia 12 months later to get the paperwork in order.
I did look into Bali, you can organise a weekend wedding in a resort there (in non COVID times) over the phone and email. And visa on arrival for both parties

armchairlawyer · Post by **armchairlawyer** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:40 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:25 pm For example....

You have kids (or a kid) here
You don't work / don't have a paid job / volunteer through a non-licensed NGO but want to stay for a longer time
You're not eligible for an ER extension yet
You want to make legal arrangements for your partner in case you pass away without making a will
You want to apply for Khmer citizenship

To name just a few

Well, there are alternatives if you are under 55.
And there are alternative ways of "making arrangements". Getting married is not a good alternative to making a Will.
If citizenship was on the cards, that would swing it but the advice I got is that it's a pipe dream.
If anyone has got it in recent years, I'd love to hear that I'm wrong.

Marriage thread. September 2021

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