SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:53 am Hocus Pocus (imo)
ANYthing to divert from the teachings. Man just can't help it.
ffs all this idolatry crap and supernatural gods and spirits is exactly what the Buddha called out as BS.
Delusion.

It wouldn't worry me so much, we all need to revere something greater than ourselves - it leads us to a higher place - if at least the monks would pay a bit more attention to the actual teachings of the Buddha instead of making grand, or gold embossed, statues out of concrete and dirt - and then getting/allowing/facilitating the people to get down on their knees to pray to them for material things.

(sorry Buddha if i have offend you, sincerly, but you know i loathe hypocrisy more than anything else on the planet.

HEy! There i go, even me, talking to a man who is dead as if he were God. Lucky no Cambodian monk is ever going to pull me up on that outright heresy)

, but sincere as well

I don't think Buthar would care. His concerns were internal - what's within. Let Man do what Man does. And the world will do what the world does. We just look within ourselves. Nothing else is real.

I feel, the controversy over this project, itself is Mara. It's a distraction.

And if performance art was the artist's goal, he has realised it.

ofparadise wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:30 am

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:53 am Hocus Pocus (imo)
ANYthing to divert from the teachings. Man just can't help it.
ffs all this idolatry crap and supernatural gods and spirits is exactly what the Buddha called out as BS.
Delusion.

It wouldn't worry me so much, we all need to revere something greater than ourselves - it leads us to a higher place - if at least the monks would pay a bit more attention to the actual teachings of the Buddha instead of making grand, or gold embossed, statues out of concrete and dirt - and then getting/allowing/facilitating the people to get down on their knees to pray to them for material things.

(sorry Buddha if i have offend you, sincerly, but you know i loathe hypocrisy more than anything else on the planet.

HEy! There i go, even me, talking to a man who is dead as if he were God. Lucky no Cambodian monk is ever going to pull me up on that outright heresy)

, but sincere as well

I don't think Buthar would care. His concerns were internal - what's within. Let Man do what Man does. And the world will do what the world does. We just look within ourselves. Nothing else is real.

I feel, the controversy over this project, itself is Mara. It's a distraction.

And if performance art was the artist's goal, he has realised it.

Really? So after having faith that sense objects aren't real, not lasting, subject to decay, not worthy, not possible, to make them ones own: What real didhe found, does he find,within himself? Ideas? View? Feelings? Perception? Consciousness that arises on touch? What should one go after, sacrifice toward it?

Just for 'enlightenment': As far as known, the Sublime Buddha never used nor taught the use of mudras as any benifical means. So it's all in the common worlds culture area.

For those interested in the occasions around awakening, the told of the Mahavagga is most useful: I. Mahākhandhako: The Great Khandhaka, also in Khmer មហាខន្ធកៈ.

Btw. 'stories' much more worthy to turn ones interest to.

Thank you Loak.
Indeed interesting and valuable insights have come up from this discussion.
Insights can come up from anywhere, from anything, if you train your mind to think that way.
Truly indeed the whole world including its dust is one giant apple orchard of opportunities for Enlightenment.
(I think the Buddha said words to that effect)

But that in no way helps me with my straight-forward questioning about some of wayward practices and teachings and not-teachings of one of the most powerful of all power institutions in the land.

There IS such a thing as duty, and responsibility, in Buddhas teachings. Especially for those who take the honour to teach
I would have thought part of that was to address such matters. And to be willing, and clear, in addressing questions about them.
I have never once seen that happen by any Khmer clergy or respected individual on either a personal or public way.

The grand guilded circus of demons and supernatural spirits goes 'round and around and all questions are answered with mysterious riddles....

This is not all just philosophical discussion for me, and a personal quest to understand such obvious contradictions to the Buddha's teachings as they came to me.
These blokes also teach my wife and so i want accountability for the Garden Path she is led down in a number of ways. Surely you can understand that.

respectfully

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:11 am Thank you Loak.
Indeed interesting and valuable insights have come up from this discussion.
Insights can come up from anywhere, from anything, if you train your mind to think that way.

Good householder, no. The formost outwardly prerequisite for awakening is admirable friendship, relation. Although, of course Dhamma would be avaliable, it has to be known and point out. Maybe Nyom likes to discover the Path toward stream a little: Association with People of Integrity

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:11 amTruly indeed the whole world including its dust is one giant apple orchard of opportunities for Enlightenment.
(I think the Buddha said words to that effect)

It's very very seldom to even gain a human existance, more seldom to ever meet the teachings of a Samma Sambuddha, in an area where general right view still is known and one isn't mentaly handicaped. So wise to do not miss a auspicious opportunity, because even if near, less would trace. The usual simile is an oneueyed turtle, diving up all 100 year in the oceans and fetching a yoke drifting around.

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:11 amBut that in no way helps me with my straight-forward questioning about some of wayward practices and teachings and not-teachings of one of the most powerful of all power institutions in the land.

First: better to do oneself a better and place compassion there where possible wrong things are traced, and secound: only a Noble one would be able to know right and wrong in regard of the path.

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:11 amThere IS such a thing as duty, and responsibility, in Buddhas teachings. Especially for those who take the honour to teach
I would have thought part of that was to address such matters. And to be willing, and clear, in addressing questions about them.
I have never once seen that happen by any Khmer clergy or respected individual on either a personal or public way.

Well, also what one mets is a matter of Nissaya, Uppanissaya, deeds, tendency. How ever, if good householder likes to spend times in more benefical than usual small talks and thought battles, he should feel welcome here, if able to leave usual home.

The grand guilded circus of demons and supernatural spirits goes 'round and around and all questions are answered with mysterious riddles....

There are no "mysteries" or secrets within the Dhamma-Vinaya of the Sublime Buddha. All a matter of listen to the good teachings and maintaining right attention.

This is not all just philosophical discussion for me, and a personal quest to understand such obvious contradictions to the Buddha's teachings as they came to me.
These blokes also teach my wife and so i want accountability for the Garden Path she is led down in a number of ways. Surely you can understand that.

respectfully

It's good and prais-worthy to wish to lead near and dear to meet the monks, good householder, encourage toward good.

Leave it for the tourists to help the beggars while the Buddhists give a TV dinner & a can of Fanta to the dead for their own self gain

Samana Johann wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:38 pm It's good and prais-worthy to wish to lead near and dear to meet the monks, good householder, encourage toward good.

You have shown great patience, honoured Loak.
Thank you for that, and for this discussion, deeply. I have learned.

May i offer to you in return a glimpse of the most treasured insights that have been blessed to me by monks in this wonderful land.
with reverence












And this hand ^^^ of course is that of Grandmother Nget Khun, and on who's wrist, you can see, is the holy thread of sanctification, protection, guidance, succour and support that these incredibly brave, dirt poor, dispossessed Buddhist souls receive from these monks.
Thank God they have someone.

So, deeply, respectfully, i thank you again, reverend Loak, (and friend, and fellow CEO member) for your patience, and for this discussion.
And as you can see - i fully agree
It's indeed good and prais-worthy to wish to lead near and dear to meet the monks, good householder, encourage toward good.

Samana Johann wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:47 am Really? So after having faith that sense objects aren't real, not lasting, subject to decay, not worthy, not possible, to make them ones own: What real didhe found, does he find,within himself? Ideas? View? Feelings? Perception? Consciousness that arises on touch? What should one go after, sacrifice toward it?

Hi Samana Johann, the view I expressed earlier, come from my personal spirituality and philosophy, which has shaped my life and it comes largely from the Advaita view of the world.

Good householder SternAAlbifrons, may he be sure that non of those sad examples are regarded of monks who follow their teacher, their Vinaya, their duties and the Dhamna, but lead themselves and many down the lane of long term suffering. Look right here, actually their minds are already at hell, calling for others to follow the path down. Wise if able to trace admirable friends and wise when avoiding what's proper to avoid.

No body in certain charge could be rightly called wrong if disciple people wearing the robes of 'Khmer' (Khema, people at peace = similie for Arahat) and act even more worse as common people. Neither could they be called good fellows, not to speak of been called monks, to address here very clear.

It's a matter of right view that one is able to join the Noble Ones customs, and views of rights and demand are grave wrong views and even signs of great ingratitude.

One is wise not to follow, even if popular, fools and modern pseudo liberal ideas. The path out of dependency of all kind, the path to unbound, is only one and only for whom who follows it.

The sooner good householder leaves the area where one incapable tries to gain a footing by displaying another as incapable the better. This area gives just nourishment for unwholesome thoughts, words and deeds, never lead to ease if not leaving the arenas similar roster-fights. May he do quick, as someone seeing the dangers would possible not approach another time to try to help someone out actually not seeking refuge behind common sense. Good then. Metta&mudita

For increase of faith in what's worthy to give into, to understand the Gems a little more, Atma thought to leave MN 21: Kakacupama Sutta — The Simile of the Saw behind here, that those seeking for this path and not blind, could trace it, gain a vision of it. Khmer: កកចូបមសូត្រ

ofparadise wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:54 pm

Samana Johann wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:47 am Really? So after having faith that sense objects aren't real, not lasting, subject to decay, not worthy, not possible, to make them ones own: What real didhe found, does he find,within himself? Ideas? View? Feelings? Perception? Consciousness that arises on touch? What should one go after, sacrifice toward it?

Hi Samana Johann, the view I expressed earlier, come from my personal spirituality and philosophy, which has shaped my life and it comes largely from the Advaita view of the world.

Even if a disciple of the Jains, why not simply consider the asked, good householder. Many of the Buddhas disciples had been wanderers of the Jains or had been devoted to them. Maybe he likes to consider that's maybe worthy to investigate the Sublime Buddhas Dhamma.