Taken out of a wildlife sanctuary or state land I'm guessing they are. How is it a shakedown? They planted the hundreds of lizards in their truck? I think they're mainly sold as pets. I see a lot of lizard vendors now.

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:02 pm Taken out of a wildlife sanctuary or state land I'm guessing they are. How is it a shakedown? They planted the hundreds of lizards in their truck?

Taken out of a wild life sanctuary? Over 900 pcs? I would say these come from some kind of 'gecko farm'. Catching these in the wild is pretty hard, even catching one in the house is a difficult task if you're not a dog or a cat.

A 30k fine seems a shakedown to me, pretty outrageous. Maybe the guy sending the geckos was into it too? I don't know. Fining the transporter and not going after the person sending the items makes me very suspicious.

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:02 pm I think they're mainly sold as pets. I see a lot of lizard vendors now.

Frozen lizards as a pet?

They cure AIDS

The Trade in Tokay gecko Geckos gekko in South-East Asia:
with a case study on Novel Medicinal Claims in Peninsular Malaysia
2013 Traffic report

The international trade in Tokay Geckos for TM is colossal. The vast majority of Tokay Geckos traded for TM originate from
Thailand and Java, Indonesia. Customs import data show that Taiwan has imported ~15 000 000 Tokay Geckos since 2004, 71%
of which were imported from Thailand with the remainder are mostly coming from Indonesia. While this trade appears to be legal but
unregulated in Thailand, the trade in Tokay Geckos from Java appears to be entirely illegal.

It is important to note that Taiwan is not the sole consumer of Tokay Geckos for TM. A seizure in 2011 bound for Hong Kong from
Indonesia is estimated to have consisted of 1 200 000 dried Tokay Geckos. Aside from Taiwan and Hong Kong, large quantities of
Tokay Geckos are also consumed for TM in mainland China and Viet Nam. The extent of this trade is unknown but thought to be
substantial. Considerable volumes of Tokay Geckos are also traded beyond Asia: between 1998 and 2004, 8.5 tonnes of dried Tokay
Geckos were imported into the USA. Taking this into consideration, it is reasonable to believe that the total trade in Tokay Geckos
exceed the already substantial known trade.
more...
https://www.traffic.org/site/assets/fil ... e-asia.pdf

TM - Traditional Medicine
NMC - Novel Medicinal Claims (Aids cure, etc)
PT - Pet trade (sorry nothing about the frozen species)
I would think many of "Thai" geckos are probably from Cambodia.

Some Dutch worms showed up in Koh Kong about 7 or 8 years ago to organise a "jungle doof"
The doof was a big failure so they teamed up with the local con-artist/barang's parasite ** to harvest Tokays

** No names but any old local expat would know him
Son of a Ranariddh Prosecutor Generale (of the 90's)
Dope dealer, "Guide"/special friend/procurer of anything/passport thief/general **n*.
Now an organ dealer. Perfect job for the man. true story, organises rich desperate Khmers for cheap transplants holidays in India.

So don't think of the driver as just a gecko trafficker - he's a human organ dealer in training.

A Once Common Gecko Is Vanishing from Parts of Asia
With millions of tokay geckos trapped each year for use in traditional Chinese medicine, conservationists are calling for international protections

The baby blue and orange-spotted tokay gecko—whose creaky calls of to-kay provided its onomatopoeic name—have always been ubiquitous throughout Southeast Asia, southern China and India. The wall-climbing reptiles often reside in restaurants, gardens and homes, where they help control insect pests.

In recent years, though, they have begun to be traded by the millions on the international market—and evidence is emerging that the species is in quick decline, says Vincent Nijman, an anthropologist at Oxford Brookes University in England. Few scientists have undertaken studies of gecko population trends, but teams have confirmed declines as high as 50 percent in China, Vietnam, Thailand, Myanmar (formerly Burma), Indonesia, the Philippines and Bangladesh. Anecdotally, “many people say that where they could hear tokays in their backyards 10 to 15 years ago, they are no longer there,” Nijman says.

more
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... s-of-asia/

Kammekor wrote:

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:02 pm Taken out of a wildlife sanctuary or state land I'm guessing they are. How is it a shakedown? They planted the hundreds of lizards in their truck?

Taken out of a wild life sanctuary? Over 900 pcs? I would say these come from some kind of 'gecko farm'. Catching these in the wild is pretty hard, even catching one in the house is a difficult task if you're not a dog or a cat.

A 30k fine seems a shakedown to me, pretty outrageous. Maybe the guy sending the geckos was into it too? I don't know. Fining the transporter and not going after the person sending the items makes me very suspicious.

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:02 pm I think they're mainly sold as pets. I see a lot of lizard vendors now.

Frozen lizards as a pet?

Didn't notice the 30k fine. That does sound rather odd/hefty. I'm guessing the ice is to transport them, they're reptiles after all. I was assuming most would still be live.

John Bingham wrote:

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:02 pm Taken out of a wildlife sanctuary or state land I'm guessing they are. How is it a shakedown? They planted the hundreds of lizards in their truck? I think they're mainly sold as pets. I see a lot of lizard vendors now.

They are Tokays, a common enough lizard. They are used in Chinese Traditional Medicine. Pol Pot literally exported tons of Tokay heads to China, at bargain prices.

Some of them look a bit small to be tokays, but I'm no wildlife expert. Could be from a farm, but odd that they're coming from so far away.

I am no wildlife Expert either, but every one of those looks like a tokay to me, the identifiable ones anyway.
They are farmed, not sure of the extent but according to Traffic, not enough to meet the huge demand.
They are widespread and no reason to think they were not harvested from any of the forests up north.

There does not seem to be much literature on farming, harvesting or the trade in Cambodia. I'll keep looking.
- like i said, some of the "thai" geckos are probably shipped from here.

Incidentally, i just picked this out of the Traffic report ^^
Additionally, private dealers interviewed highlighted that the trade in this species, particularly in Thailand, is dangerous and often involves robberies and hold-ups.

lol. Add extortion by uniform

. Virtually all trade is thought to be in animals that were harvested from the wild.

That's it for me on flocking geckos tonight. ffs shoot me

For those who are even weirder than me...
Traffic's proposal to have them listed on Appendix 11 of the CITES treaty (restricted trade)
https://www.fws.gov/international/CITES ... -gecko.pdf

every single flocking thing you want to know about the Tokay and their trade
weirdo!

Anchor Moy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:04 pm

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:44 am

Khmer_Risotto wrote:Can someone remind me why this company is still allowed to operate?

I was just about to ask the same thing. Thieving, constant accidents and now wildlife trafficking. Jesus...

And this is not the first time they've been busted for trafficking wildlife. Looks like it's been going on for years.
Mr Vireak must have some clout.
newsworthy/virak-buntham-buses-raided-w ... 16470.html

And there you have your answer...