Is it worthwhile to invest in ESL teacher training?
Re: Is it worthwhile to invest in ESL teacher training?
Another true story.xandreu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:59 pmIf you're implying that my opinion originates from myself being unlicensed and/or inexperienced, forgive me but I have absolutely no obligation to justify my occupational achievements to you.
I did not say that going to a classroom did not have any benefits at all.Kammekor wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:07 am The learning results of sitting in a classroom and learning are highly related to the quality of the teacher and the relationship between the teacher and the students. Students tend to work much harder, and learn more, from teachers they like / respect the most. After reading your rant I couldn't help but wonder how you rate yourself as an English teacher.
Of course going to a classroom to help improve your English has it's benefits,
But learning a language is about much more than the relationship between teacher and student. A student who struggles with compound nouns isn't suddenly going to get it just because the teacher said their hair looked nice today. OK, I know that's not exactly what you mean, but my main point was the difference between language learning and language acquisition.
True story - An ex of mine arrived in the UK from Venezuela (as a kind of illegal refugee but that's another story). The only English word he knew was Hello / Hi. Couldn't afford to go to language school. Had absolutely no choice but to learn English himself from scratch. Within 6 months he was pretty much fluent. Not just speaking, but reading as well. How? Why? Pure necessity. Very few people in the UK speak Spanish and he knew how tough his life would be if he couldn't speak English. He bought newspapers every day, we watched the news every day, he stood close to people on the bus to overhear their conversations so he could learn idioms / colloquialisms / slang etc etc and learned more in 6 moths of self study than a ;language school could have taught him in 2-3 years.
Please don't use my opinions based on personal experience to judge my abilities as an English teacher.
My daughter started French lessons in her primary school, at 7 years old. After 9 years of professional, licensed and qualified British school teaching, she took a French GCSE and got a solid B (was always supposedly on course for an A if you listened to those same teachers).
Guess what? She can't speak French. Never could, I suspect. She went to France when she was 19 and couldn't understand anything meaningful and couldn't string a sentence together without having to plan it out. She was barely understood either.
She was taught to pass a French exam, not to speak French. Like an actor learning her lines. And that's what it was all about. Exam passes, not competency or useable skills that are retained for the future. If that's not a racket I don't know what is.
And, just in case anyone is questioning her intelligence, last week she walked out of Sussex University with a Law degree.
Still can't speak French though
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Clutch Cargo
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Re: Is it worthwhile to invest in ESL teacher training?
^^
It's interesting coz a good friend of Mrs Cargo's is quite proficient in reading and writing English, yet, whenever I see her we struggle to have a conversation. I find it really odd after exchanging messages with her. OTOH Mrs Cargo's spoken English I would say is of a high standard and superior to most khmers...yet, she struggles and is hardly able to read and write english. Complete opposites they are. One has done a lot of formal education, the other not.
It's interesting coz a good friend of Mrs Cargo's is quite proficient in reading and writing English, yet, whenever I see her we struggle to have a conversation. I find it really odd after exchanging messages with her. OTOH Mrs Cargo's spoken English I would say is of a high standard and superior to most khmers...yet, she struggles and is hardly able to read and write english. Complete opposites they are. One has done a lot of formal education, the other not.
Re: Is it worthwhile to invest in ESL teacher training?
First of all, I never judged your abilities as an English teacher. I honestly asked you how you would rate yourself, which you didn't because you don't feel obliged. Well, you're not. But asking questions is allowed right?xandreu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:59 pmIf you're implying that my opinion originates from myself being unlicensed and/or inexperienced, forgive me but I have absolutely no obligation to justify my occupational achievements to you.
I did not say that going to a classroom did not have any benefits at all.Kammekor wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:07 am The learning results of sitting in a classroom and learning are highly related to the quality of the teacher and the relationship between the teacher and the students. Students tend to work much harder, and learn more, from teachers they like / respect the most. After reading your rant I couldn't help but wonder how you rate yourself as an English teacher.
Of course going to a classroom to help improve your English has it's benefits,
But learning a language is about much more than the relationship between teacher and student. A student who struggles with compound nouns isn't suddenly going to get it just because the teacher said their hair looked nice today. OK, I know that's not exactly what you mean, but my main point was the difference between language learning and language acquisition.
True story - An ex of mine arrived in the UK from Venezuela (as a kind of illegal refugee but that's another story). The only English word he knew was Hello / Hi. Couldn't afford to go to language school. Had absolutely no choice but to learn English himself from scratch. Within 6 months he was pretty much fluent. Not just speaking, but reading as well. How? Why? Pure necessity. Very few people in the UK speak Spanish and he knew how tough his life would be if he couldn't speak English. He bought newspapers every day, we watched the news every day, he stood close to people on the bus to overhear their conversations so he could learn idioms / colloquialisms / slang etc etc and learned more in 6 moths of self study than a ;language school could have taught him in 2-3 years.
Please don't use my opinions based on personal experience to judge my abilities as an English teacher.
Of course learning a language by immersion is superior. But most people simply don't have that option. I for sure didn't when I first learned English, or French, or German. I was when I learned Khmer.
I think by referring to immersion you're drawing a picture of Utopia which your friend from Venezuela was lucky enough to experience, but 99% isn't.
So in reality for most, learning through a teacher is the way to go. And as a former highschool teacher and teacher trainer I can assure you the way the teacher teaches makes ALL the difference to what the kids learn. I have seen many great teachers, but I have also seen so many teachers not up to the job. In my experience those are the ones complaining about the system.
Just my (professional) point of view.
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