Derek Chauvin Guilty

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nerdlinger
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by nerdlinger »

ergosemper wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:42 am This is going to be appealed all the way to SCOTUS and will drag on for years, thanks to Rep. Maxine Waters.
In my ignorance, I thought the Supreme Court was just for cases where the law itself needed ruling on?
As far as I can tell, the laws regarding murder are pretty well tested by now.

The reason this outcome was a surprise has little to do with the legal interpretation of murder and more to do with how we’ve got so used to police escaping punishment by default.
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by nemo »

Floyd had a fatal cocktail of drugs in his system
Nonsense - contrary to the coroner's report.
Provide a credible source if you can.
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by newkidontheblock »

The underlying problem is the breakdown of society. Previous pillars that kept order have broken down. Familial bonds, gone. Neighbors looking after each other, gone. Kids run feral and parents think their kids are above reproach. Church and religion, distrusted as pedophiles. Schools are no longer respected. Trust in government institutions, gone.

The last ditch are the police. And so society turns to the police to solve everyone’s problem.

American criminals wouldn’t think twice about killing a police officer. And what American criminal has admitted guilt of crimes up front? Everyone of them declares innocence, and says they ‘caught’ a bad deal - like prison for murder.

If the criminals are civil, don’t run from the cops, don’t assault them, don’t try to kill them, peacefully surrender to arrest, then the cops will respond in kind.

Officer Friendly would be happy to return when criminal Freddy stops acting like a vicious thug.

Those are my thoughts.
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TheImplication
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by TheImplication »

nemo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:10 pm
Floyd had a fatal cocktail of drugs in his system
Nonsense - contrary to the coroner's report.
Provide a credible source if you can.
Medical Examiner Concluded George Floyd Likely Died Of Fentanyl Overdose, Court Docs Reveal

“ New court documents have uncovered two memorandums, dated May 26 and June 1, that suggest Chief Hennepin County Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker concluded George Floyd likely died from a fentanyl overdose and found “no physical evidence suggesting” that he died of asphyxiation.

“AB (Andrew Baker) said that if Mr. Floyd had been found dead in his home (or anywhere else) and there were no other contributing factors he would conclude that it was an overdose death,” says a memo dated June 1, outlining a May 31 virtual with Dr. Baker.”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/medical ... ocs-reveal
nerdlinger
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by nerdlinger »

He said “credible source”, not the daily wire... 8)

That article is describing claims made by the defence. The claim that the fentanyl was a “lethal dose” was established not to be true in court.
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by Jack.R. »

nemo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:10 pm
Floyd had a fatal cocktail of drugs in his system
Nonsense - contrary to the coroner's report.
Provide a credible source if you can.
Well, statistically people who died from fentanyl overdose had readings from 0.75 ng/mL to an astounding record of 113 ng/mL.

The average death dose was 9.96 ng/mL.
So that's the point where most people die from just fentanyl.

According to George Floyd's toxicology report, his blood contained 11.0 ng/mL Fentanyl, 5.6 ng/mL norfentanyl, 19 ng/mL of methamphetamine and 42 ng/ml of THC.

Image

Does he mean that he did die from it? No.
Was it a fatal amount? For most addicts yes.
Maybe he had an exeptional tolerance which can be expected of someone willing to drive while high enough for most people to be dead.
Besides that he was also tested positive to covid a day or two prior to his death (which Floyd, not very cleverly, said to the officers face without a mask. some people might want to choke you for that alone) and had some other serious chronic conditions.

The main point of the drugs being a possibile cause of death is that Floyd kept saying repeatedly that he couldn't breathe long before being pinned to the ground.
According to Floyd himself in the video it was due only to claustrophobia as he stated that he didn't use drugs.
The fact that he couldn't breathe was the reason why he didn't let the officers take him into the car and to the precinct which led to him being pinned to the ground instead.

Anyway regardless of Floyd's drug use, extensive life of crime and how much of a general danger to society he was when alive the officer should have removed the pressure when the suspect passed out.
I could have understood if the officer was alone but he had 2 more officers keeping him down in case he would spring back up. So the action of keeping pressure after the suspect passed out is excessive force regardless of the root cause.

Did it mean Floyd was murdered?
Personally i don't think so.
I don't think Derek WANTED to kill Floyd.
As most officers he likely had better things to do that spending his time dealing with the antics of drug addicts.
The officers tried to make him enter the police car over and over peacefully and than even tried to shove him into it before ultimately pinning him to the ground as they failed in their attempts waiting for the ambulance to arrive so that he could be transported on a stretcher instead of the police car.
The manoeuvre used to pin floyd in itself is common and at the time of the incident was considered a rather standard restraining method.

Considering that the officer was doing a lawful arrest and following procedure until the point where the suspect passed out but failed to recognize what was a quite obvious dangerous situation for the suspect in his custody which could have been the cause of his death i personally think that a charge of Negligent Homicide would have been more appropriate than murder and manslaughter at most.
The main difference between the two being wether the officer was aware that what he was doing was going to be highly dangerous (manslaughter) but proceeded anyway or if the officer was is criminally negligent because he did not realize his behavior was dangerous, even though he should have. (Negligent Homicide) but murder charges? I don't think that is a fair outcome. This because murder is usually defined as one person killing another person with intentional malice. Effectively this puts the officer as on the same level with someone killing his wife because he found her in bed with another man in a fit of anger, which would be also a non premeditated murder.
I think the officer situation left plenty of reasonable doubts in regards to the murder charges and as far as i understand american law i don't think it was remotely proven beyond reasonable doubt that Derek Chauvin killed Floyd with intentional malice.
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TheImplication
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by TheImplication »

nerdlinger wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:56 pm He said “credible source”, not the daily wire... 8)

That article is describing claims made by the defence. The claim that the fentanyl was a “lethal dose” was established not to be true in court.
The article is describing what the medical examiner said, not the defense. The ME said if he had nothing else to go by, it would be an overdose since pulse nor the airway showed signs of being restricted. But this is just from the actual medical examiner that did the autopsy, not the experts the state brought in to refute his findings or say that large fentanyl doses could not be fatal all of a sudden. Even though the MPD training officer had a slide in the training manual showing a small speck of fentanyl as being deadly and numerous witnesses saying Floyd was in overdose territory regardless of tolerance.
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by Apollo91881 »

newkidontheblock wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:30 pm The underlying problem is the breakdown of society. Previous pillars that kept order have broken down. Familial bonds, gone. Neighbors looking after each other, gone. Kids run feral and parents think their kids are above reproach. Church and religion, distrusted as pedophiles. Schools are no longer respected. Trust in government institutions, gone.

The last ditch are the police. And so society turns to the police to solve everyone’s problem.

American criminals wouldn’t think twice about killing a police officer. And what American criminal has admitted guilt of crimes up front? Everyone of them declares innocence, and says they ‘caught’ a bad deal - like prison for murder.

If the criminals are civil, don’t run from the cops, don’t assault them, don’t try to kill them, peacefully surrender to arrest, then the cops will respond in kind.

Officer Friendly would be happy to return when criminal Freddy stops acting like a vicious thug.

Those are my thoughts.
Nonsense.
Did you see the Army officer who got pulled over by the two officers a few weeks ago? It’s all on video. Where was his aggression?
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by Error404 »

Apollo91881 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:58 am
newkidontheblock wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:30 pm The underlying problem is the breakdown of society. Previous pillars that kept order have broken down. Familial bonds, gone. Neighbors looking after each other, gone. Kids run feral and parents think their kids are above reproach. Church and religion, distrusted as pedophiles. Schools are no longer respected. Trust in government institutions, gone.

The last ditch are the police. And so society turns to the police to solve everyone’s problem.

American criminals wouldn’t think twice about killing a police officer. And what American criminal has admitted guilt of crimes up front? Everyone of them declares innocence, and says they ‘caught’ a bad deal - like prison for murder.

If the criminals are civil, don’t run from the cops, don’t assault them, don’t try to kill them, peacefully surrender to arrest, then the cops will respond in kind.

Officer Friendly would be happy to return when criminal Freddy stops acting like a vicious thug.

Those are my thoughts.
Nonsense.
Did you see the Army officer who got pulled over by the two officers a few weeks ago? It’s all on video. Where was his aggression?
It was a high-risk stop this guy didn't pull over for a mile and a half, this butter bar lieutenant was obviously trying to provoke the police so he could sue later. If you need an explanation this guy explains it well
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Re: Derek Chauvin Guilty

Post by Big Daikon »

Lots of crazy stuff about this case:

1.
Rep. Maxine Waters on Saturday night called for protesters to "stay on the street" and "get more confrontational" if former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin is acquitted in the killing of George Floyd.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/19/poli ... index.html

2.
Vandals left a pig’s head at the onetime California home of a retired Santa Rosa, Calif., police officer who testified last week for the defense of Derek Chauvin, the former officer accused of killing George Floyd in Minneapolis, police said.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... se-witness
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