The correlation between IQ and corruption

This is where our community discusses almost anything! While we're mainly a Cambodia expat discussion forum and talk about expat life here, we debate about almost everything. Even if you're a tourist passing through Southeast Asia and want to connect with expatriates living and working in Cambodia, this is the first section of our site that you should check out. Our members start their own discussions or post links to other blogs and/or news articles they find interesting and want to chat about. So join in the fun and start new topics, or feel free to comment on anything our community members have already started! We also have some Khmer members here as well, but English is the main language used on CEO. You're welcome to have a look around, and if you decide you want to participate, you can become a part our international expat community by signing up for a free account.
User avatar
Freightdog
Expatriate
Posts: 4351
Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 8:41 am
Reputation: 3446
Location: Attached to a suitcase between realities
Ireland

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by Freightdog »

Jerry Atrick wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:13 pm I roll my eyes...
trots out that old trope of "they killed all the smart ones"...
...bar dwelling troglodyte
...that never went further than Daun Penh who doesn't have full motor controls...
Thank you for your contribution

:popcorn:
User avatar
John Bingham
Expatriate
Posts: 13674
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:26 pm
Reputation: 8892
Cambodia

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by John Bingham »

So we can conclude that people like Ghislaine Maxwell, Steve Bannon, William "Boss" Tweed and Ferdinand Marcos all had low IQs?
Silence, exile, and cunning.
Chad Sexington
Expatriate
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:43 pm
Reputation: 1343
Great Britain

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by Chad Sexington »

IraHayes wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:11 pm
Spigzy wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:04 pm
IraHayes wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:46 am A. thoughts on IQ as a metric to measure success
B. short-term gain Vs Long-term gain in Cambodia in your experience.
A. I've known so many academics right up to professors who would not last a day in a corporate environment, so you'd need to define 'success' more clearly. If success is to become a professor, then great, if it is monetary or ability to run a super successful company, they'd fall flat despite humungous IQ. Similarly some folks of bang average IQ are "go get 'em" people who even after quitting school at 16 are absolutely driven/motivated and thus succeed despite all odds.

B. It's all about the short-term for the average Cambodian in my view; there's always the next gig. The exceptions tend to be those heavily influenced by the Chinese who definitely have a much longer outlook & are looking to build things that will last, somewhat ironic given the general quality of Chinese products, but the intention is there.

Part A of your answer actually gives the answer. "Success" means just that ... to be successful in your chosen field. That may be academic, as in your ref. to "professors I have known" but also those who run a successful company or are successful in a company and progress in that company/business are extremely likely to be of higher IQ than average.

It was this exact point that led me to begin looking at IQ and corruption
Can success or IQ really be quantified? They are both open to widely varying interpretation depending on the individual and their circumstances.

Is an uneducated tribesman who’s cows, due to his diligence and hard work, all produce calves that are raised to have a marketable value, thus allowing him to provide the necessities of life for his family, any less successful than someone who was privileged to be well educated/connected and who is the highly paid head of a government department?
Is success only measured in dollar bills, what about happiness and contentment?

As for IQ, I’ve met some university academics who I wouldn’t trust to boil an egg for me, and some manual workers (who would be considered low IQ by many) who I’d trust with my life.
Who is more intelligent, someone who knows everything about a single subject, or a person who knows something about many subjects? personally I’d say the latter, but that’s just my opinion.
Would those individuals disagree with my opinions of them? quite possibly, again it depends on the individuals own interpretation.
User avatar
truffledog
Expatriate
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:54 am
Reputation: 1028
Italy

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by truffledog »

I would not put italians on the low IQ side of the world, but corruption is rampant here. On all levels, comune, province, government. Applied in all economic sectors from public to private. All political parties involved no mattter if right, center or leftist. Some get used to it and consider it a means of speeding-up of things, others hate it as it disrupts the right allocation of funds and a correct pecking order. And still Italy has managed to be a permanent G7 member and is a top 20 member of the wealthiest countries in the world. When a scandal is covered up there is a great fuss about it, and shortly after we go back to discuss football.
As for Cambodia many big projects would not be done if there were no brown envelopes circulating. GDP may rise but at the end its not well distributed between the different income classes. Some of the corruption may be defined as fees that developped nations charge its population for doing things. Other forms of corruption are just barely based on greed and power.
work is for people who cant find truffles
User avatar
Arget
Expatriate
Posts: 3259
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:44 am
Reputation: 2416
Location: Phnom Penh
Contact:
Australia

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by Arget »

Here these funds should be passed on to the wives who, it is said, have a very high level of expertise in the investment sector.

Some have turned a government officials paltry salary into millions, nay in some cases billions. I am surprised that these home makers have not been pushed forward to run the government finance sectors in their entirety.
User avatar
siliconlife
Expatriate
Posts: 901
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 6:29 pm
Reputation: 542
Palau Island

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by siliconlife »

IraHayes wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:32 pm
siliconlife wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:21 pm It is under question whether or not IQ tests are a good measure of success. In a Western academic setting the answer is yes. Otherwise, there's a lot of reading to do.

"What may be considered intelligent in one environment, therefore, might not in others. For example, knowledge about medicinal herbs is seen as a form of intelligence in certain communities within Africa, but does not correlate with high performance on traditional Western academic intelligence tests.

According to some researchers, the “cultural specificity” of intelligence makes IQ tests biased towards the environments in which they were developed – namely white, Western society. This makes them potentially problematic in culturally diverse settings. The application of the same test among different communities would fail to recognise the different cultural values that shape what each community values as intelligent behaviour." https://theconversation.com/the-iq-test ... sial-81428


Worth considering.
And, using your example of a Traditional Healer in a sub-Saharan country, there could be an average IQ of 80 in that country. However, if our Healer is above average at, lets say 95, then she has the been able to become a Healer and learn+apply her knowledge of plants etc because of her increased IQ relative to the general population. ie. She succeeded because her IQ was higher than those around her.
It is when IQ is looked at like this that as a metric for predicting "success in life" it works.

Having discussions about ethnic variations in IQ has become a taboo subject but the differences cannot be easily dismissed.
I'm not saying IQ is without value. I'm just saying that it is a system developed in a specific cultural setting with it's own values on what "success" means. Success will vary between cultures, and individuals, and thus there is no real marker as to what it represents objectively. I've seen (too many) westerners in Cambodia for example measure success by how much substance-induced brain damage they can inflict upon themselves over the course of an evening, and actually argue that that's a valuable asset. Hardly something that would correlate to IQ. Too many inherent contradictions in this topic, and thus why academics tend to shun it these days. After all... to look into things like "ethnic variations in IQ", we have to ask ourselves, what are we really researching here?
User avatar
IraHayes
Expatriate
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 7:38 am
Reputation: 2030
Marshall Islands

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by IraHayes »

After reading some of the comments regarding how high IQ is often coupled with comments like..
As for IQ, I’ve met some university academics who I wouldn’t trust to boil an egg for me,
I started to look into it and found this article about "Practical Intelligence" and it goes some way to explaining why comments as quoted above, are so common.
http://psychology.iresearchnet.com/indu ... elligence/
nerdlinger
Expatriate
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:56 pm
Reputation: 570
Great Britain

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by nerdlinger »

IraHayes wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:32 pm Having discussions about ethnic variations in IQ has become a taboo subject but the differences cannot be easily dismissed.
What? Racist apologia is taboo you say? Surely not!
User avatar
Phnom Poon
Expatriate
Posts: 1795
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:44 pm
Reputation: 892
Kiribati

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by Phnom Poon »

despite appearances, i believe cambodia scores reasonably well on iq tests
it's not exactly an academic culture however, and i think that's a big factor

as for the relationship with corruption
i think a smarter population is more likely to spot corruption
not that smarter individuals are less inclined

.

monstra mihi bona!
User avatar
Jerry Atrick
Expatriate
Posts: 5409
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 4:19 pm
Reputation: 3037
Central African Republic

Re: The correlation between IQ and corruption

Post by Jerry Atrick »

All this talk about IQ, and not a whisper about EQ, which is arguably more important
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Ong Tay and 1589 guests