Phnom Poon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:15 pm

samrong01 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:01 pm If you bid high sometimes they will accept it straight away.

then maybe you didn't bid high enough
that's why you don't open with your price
but with something like 'how much am i worth to you?'

Actually no, I bid at a price which all my friends said was way over the top. "How much am I worth to you?" is tricky because they may come back with a low bid. Its really no different to being in the market. You are the seller so its natural for the buyer to ask your price. Its all very well to say you might have got more but if you are satisfied with what you have got then so what? More can come later if it works out well.

Freightdog's point is very valid though. If you are talking to HR its the kiss of death for salary. Solution: Don't talk to HR. If they insist you must then this is an indication they do not place much value on you. Its important that the line manager tells HR how much he will pay - not the other way around. If, as Freightdog describes, you are desperate and must talk to HR just tell them you will work for their normal scale. Do not low ball and reveal your desperation.

Is Cambodia still open to job search visas? I was under the impression that it was but it seems like you need a business vouching for you to come in and get the visa?

Having been both, a candidate and a recruiting manager dozens of times in Cambodia, I should share a few tips. Contrary to the what some posters said above, it's actually a standard practice here for an employer to ask for the candidate's expected salary during, or even before the interview, without giving any range. I have attended at least 30 interviews here (never for a teacher position, but nonetheless), and virtually every time I was asked for how much salary I wanted. Later, when I started recruiting my own teams, I also always ask for their expected salary, either directly, or via my HR manager who has a candidate form with a field for that.

I learned that you should know your market value and start 30-50% higher (no more, no less), and they will always say they can't afford that and offer you much lower salary.

My advice, if you want $2500 (which is ok for a single person for a first job here), say your expected minimum salary is $3000 and that has to be net (after all taxes), plus they have to sponsor your visa fee. They will then probably offer you around $1500-$2000 (if they are serious and like you), and will probably settle around $2200-$2300 after 2-3 personal meetings and emails. Then they will increase after 3 months probation to $2,500, and you'll get what you wanted.

A good answer is also "my last salary was $3000, but I understand the business situation may now be bad, and I am open to negotiate".

Good luck!

Freightdog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:35 pm

My advice is bid high - you can always come down. If you bid high sometimes they will accept it straight away. This happened to me a few times to my surprise.

Knowing where to pitch your bid is very useful, sadly. If you need the job desperately, and are willing to pitch low to get the job, you can always move on when times are better. It’s no good for the organisation when the real talent later on votes with their feet, though.

By way of a data point, I changed jobs recently and have found that (in the UK at least) companies that showed a lot of initial interest in me immediately went quiet once I told them my price. None tried to bargain me down, presumably because they figured there’s no point hiring someone who’s already going to be looking for the door.

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:56 am A variation of the old "up to you" when asking the price of nearly everything.

Theeeeee 2nd most annoying thing about living in Cambodia.

I do not think it is perceived as a game, just the way it is in Cambodia. It is not only "up to you" but there is never a counteroffer. Not only for a salary but also for a service like construction. If I gave a price I wanted to pay they would either say yes or no. But when they say no they are gone without asking for a bit more which in most cases I would have agreed to pay. Took some getting used to at first.

samrong01 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:02 pm Its really no different to being in the market. You are the seller so its natural for the buyer to ask your price. Its all very well to say you might have got more but if you are satisfied with what you have got then so what? More can come later if it works out well.

I beg to differ the OP is the seller. Rather, I gather the school has advertised for a teacher position to which OP has applied, so in my mind, the school is the seller. They are selling a job and looking for buyers to apply.

Of course if OP has approached the school for any vacant position without prior known vacancies, then I would agree, he is more the seller in that situation.

But of course the school knows that they are in a position of power in this current covid, high unemployment environment where there is more supply than demand and so they don't want to play their hand and come out and say what they will pay. Rather, they prefer to run a dutch auction so to speak where needy applicants are all biting at the bit to get a position such that it drives down the salary they have to pay.

I've seen this disturbing trend in my home country when house prices are booming. You see more and more houses come up for sale 'subject to offer' where they don't disclose the price.. Of course, in a down market/recession when it's a buyer's market you see the reverse where sellers are biting at the bit just to find a buyer.

So I guess it depends on the times..

What a strange world when employer's are auctioning out job's

If you are NES and you have degree in education you can expect between 3000-5000$ salary in top 3 schools in PP (ISPP, Northbridge, CISP). Plus many other benefits like yearly ticket to fly home, housing allowance, free tuition for kids, insurance etc.). (My good friend was working there). Footprints is paying 1200-1600$, CIA First 1500-1800$ for 11 months contract. Many schools have "international" only in the name and pay a lot less, some schools are offering 1000-1200$.
It helps if you are white NES for sure, although I disagree that for example Indian mathematician or Austrian music teachers are paid less.
It is quite common in Cambodia to ask you for you salary expectations.
IMHO is best way to say: I am looking to receive between xxxx and yyyy monthly/annually. Due to my skill set and experience level, I feel that this is a comfortable and appropriate range for my work.
Good luck.

Chuck Borris wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:17 pm If you are NES and you have degree in education you can expect between 3000-5000$ salary in top 3 schools in PP (ISPP, Northbridge, CISP). Plus many other benefits like yearly ticket to fly home, housing allowance, free tuition for kids, insurance etc.). (My good friend was working there). Footprints is paying 1200-1600$, CIA First 1500-1800$ for 11 months contract. Many schools have "international" only in the name and pay a lot less, some schools are offering 1000-1200$.
It helps if you are white NES for sure, although I disagree that for example Indian mathematician or Austrian music teachers are paid less.
It is quite common in Cambodia to ask you for you salary expectations.
IMHO is best way to say: I am looking to receive between xxxx and yyyy monthly/annually. Due to my skill set and experience level, I feel that this is a comfortable and appropriate range for my work.
Good luck.

Thank you very much for the update on wages, many guides are outdated and if covid regulations don't go too far and close down and reduce school pay too much it seems like wages have gone up a bit. I had some questions though, if you were kind enough to indulge me:
1) I was told that with a CELTA certification and some post secondary education one could earn at lower end 1200 and likely 1400 USD a month if they play their cards right teaching English without prior professional education experience, perhaps some volunteer. Is this realistic?
2) I was told that school's reputations often change with rotation of management and employees. Are footprints and CIA first more exclusive? Are there certain schools one should not apply to? What are warning signs that a school is not worth the time?
3) I have heard of six month contracts which I might be inclined to due to intermittent business that requires absence. Are those common or easy to obtain? Is pay for those much less?
4) Are you aware of any very reputable charitable organizations in PP regarding english language education and/or landmines on a part time basis?