Does anyone know where we can get one of the Covid vaccines in Cambodia?

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ego bibere nimis
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by ego bibere nimis »

Is there an option yet to simply rock up at a private hospital and pay for it? Happy to do that as long as it isn't the Sinovac. I think Thailand is heading that route with the private hospitals.
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus »

ego bibere nimis wrote:Is there an option yet to simply rock up at a private hospital and pay for it? Happy to do that as long as it isn't the Sinovac. I think Thailand is heading that route with the private hospitals.
If you're under 60 your only option is Sinovac. Why are you against Sinovac? Political reasons or medical ones?
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by timmydownawell »

timmydownawell wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:07 pm I'll go down to my one after the lunch break at 2pm.
OK so the massive thunderstorm out there says I should wait until tomorrow.
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by Brody »

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:24 pm
ego bibere nimis wrote:Is there an option yet to simply rock up at a private hospital and pay for it? Happy to do that as long as it isn't the Sinovac. I think Thailand is heading that route with the private hospitals.
If you're under 60 your only option is Sinovac. Why are you against Sinovac? Political reasons or medical ones?
Just a question to the forum.

Generally and across the board, I abhor the Chinese government and its manipulative stranglehold on its citizens and bullying geopolitical behavior.

Regarding the Sinovac vaccine.....and those against it.......do you think the CCP would risk the absolute global propaganda disaster that would result if they released a half-arsed and dangerous vaccine to the world?

They're already under a global spotlight for unleashing this biblical wrath upon the world..........would they risk more global ire, disdain and general distrust by willfully putting more lives at risk with a shoddy, rushed, substandard vaccine?
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by TWY »

My concern is threefold.

1. I absolutely believe China would release/sell a vaccine that isn't what is appears - ie much less protection that what is claimed. So if they found out that the vaccine is only 80% effective in preventing serious Covid infections and say 40% effective at preventing less serious infections. They would keep quiet and keep exporting it to all the world. How many really poor countries will actually vaccinate 90% of their population to later actually find out the truth.

2. While the large Chinese pharmaceutical manufacturers are pretty decent - there is much less oversight than in the west. And there are political costs to not producing - so little incentive to actually report any problems. And we have no idea if this is actually also being produced by smaller contract manufacturers who have little oversight. Just ask any Chinese woman if they want 'western' baby formula or Chinese for their baby, and you'll understand the concern.

3. No data has been shared. And what type of follow up studies are being done? I know the Chinese equivalent of the CDC isn't sending anyone to Cambodia to organize/monitor people after they've been vaccinated. So while I would ASSUME that there aren't a huge number of serious side effects - we simply don't know. And should something develop after 6 or 12 months you won't be told (well actually after 3 or 4 years I assume the truth would get out but you understand what I'm saying)

I'll pay a pretty penny to get the Pfizer or J&J vaccine rather than get the Chinese vaccine.
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus »

TWY wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:18 pm My concern is threefold.

1. I absolutely believe China would release/sell a vaccine that isn't what is appears - ie much less protection that what is claimed. So if they found out that the vaccine is only 80% effective in preventing serious Covid infections and say 40% effective at preventing less serious infections. They would keep quiet and keep exporting it to all the world. How many really poor countries will actually vaccinate 90% of their population to later actually find out the truth.

2. While the large Chinese pharmaceutical manufacturers are pretty decent - there is much less oversight than in the west. And there are political costs to not producing - so little incentive to actually report any problems. And we have no idea if this is actually also being produced by smaller contract manufacturers who have little oversight. Just ask any Chinese woman if they want 'western' baby formula or Chinese for their baby, and you'll understand the concern.

3. No data has been shared. And what type of follow up studies are being done? I know the Chinese equivalent of the CDC isn't sending anyone to Cambodia to organize/monitor people after they've been vaccinated. So while I would ASSUME that there aren't a huge number of serious side effects - we simply don't know. And should something develop after 6 or 12 months you won't be told (well actually after 3 or 4 years I assume the truth would get out but you understand what I'm saying)

I'll pay a pretty penny to get the Pfizer or J&J vaccine rather than get the Chinese vaccine.
I'll try to address your concerns. Let me preface this by saying I also really don't like the Chinese government and their policies, so for political reasons I didn't really want to support their "vaccine diplomacy". I would have actually preferred to wait 4-6 months before getting a vaccine for several reasons. 1-I'm not at risk (still young and healthy) 2-I'd like to wait and "see". However, given that I work in the medical field (though I'm no doctor!), I was pretty much required to get one early on.

Now let's move on to the medical fears, which I think are basically down to lack of understanding/research. Let me admit that I actually made fun of Sinovac at first as its efficiency was announced as being only 50.5% by the Brazilians back in Jan. However, I dug deeper to get a better understanding so I’m willing to admit I’m swallowing my earlier words. Basically, the Chinese just made sure it was safe and then estimated effectiveness at like 80+%, but left it up to purchasers to make their own studies (compared to western companies who do it all themselves to get approval). In a way, that works out better as I prefer the transparency of a Brazilian/Turkish study than a Chinese one. I wouldn’t have taken it had it only been based on Chinese numbers.

You can easily find yourself the results from the Butantan Institute (a reputable research facility, with almost a century of experience and very regular contributions to medical journals) both in English and Portuguese as it's a large study on both safety and effectiveness from a reputable source. I'll try to summarize it and explain why the vaccine got downgraded to 50.4% vs an earlier rating of 70%+, and why it got 90%+ in the Turkish study:
1. The Brazilians divided participants into a whopping six categories (symptomatic, very mild, mild, two levels of moderate, and severe). Most western manufacturers only use 3 categories (mild/moderate and severe).
2. The Brazilians also only used PCR tests to determine if someone was positive, vs the Turks who needed a PCR test AND at least one symptom to be deemed “infected”. So the likelihood of more people “getting” Covid is higher in the Brazilian study.
3. The Brazilians exclusively used front-line hospital staff in their study (vs average people in the Turkish one).

As mentioned, the Brazilians' earlier estimate was 78% but it dropped to 50.4% after including those with “very mild” symptoms + asymptomatic. However, the bottom line is that it was 100% effective at preventing anything from the categories of severe/requiring hospitalization to death (4 out of their 6 categories). Turks gave an overall higher effectiveness (90%+), but as mentioned, the two-fold reason for that is a. them using more of a “normal/every day Joe” population sample with less of a risk of exposure/higher viral loads compared to the Brazilian medical workers who were basically exposed on a daily basis, as well as b. requiring a symptom AND PCR test to avoid false positives/totally asymptomatic people.

Finally, as Brody says, this is akin to Chernobyl in terms of the Chinese losing face on the international stage. They fucked already by letting this virus get out of hand so their PR is already in the mud, and rightly so. They also took their sweet ass time to share information on it for a while as they were likely already trying to beat others to the inevitable vaccine race to try to recoup PR points. As mentioned, they can't afford another fuck up/loss of face on the world stage. At the end of the day, it's up to the person getting vaccinated to do their own due diligence and read up on the aforementioned studies. Their numbers/safety record and all that can easily be accessed.

Besides, everyone knows Bill Gates is behind all the Western vaccines and those will just make you sterile...
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by timmydownawell »

OK well it dried enough for me to g̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶r̶ go to the Phsar Chas Sangkat. The word is "No vaccine, come back next month".
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by Cricket99 »

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:12 pm
TWY wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:18 pm My concern is threefold.

1. I absolutely believe China would release/sell a vaccine that isn't what is appears - ie much less protection that what is claimed. So if they found out that the vaccine is only 80% effective in preventing serious Covid infections and say 40% effective at preventing less serious infections. They would keep quiet and keep exporting it to all the world. How many really poor countries will actually vaccinate 90% of their population to later actually find out the truth.

2. While the large Chinese pharmaceutical manufacturers are pretty decent - there is much less oversight than in the west. And there are political costs to not producing - so little incentive to actually report any problems. And we have no idea if this is actually also being produced by smaller contract manufacturers who have little oversight. Just ask any Chinese woman if they want 'western' baby formula or Chinese for their baby, and you'll understand the concern.

3. No data has been shared. And what type of follow up studies are being done? I know the Chinese equivalent of the CDC isn't sending anyone to Cambodia to organize/monitor people after they've been vaccinated. So while I would ASSUME that there aren't a huge number of serious side effects - we simply don't know. And should something develop after 6 or 12 months you won't be told (well actually after 3 or 4 years I assume the truth would get out but you understand what I'm saying)

I'll pay a pretty penny to get the Pfizer or J&J vaccine rather than get the Chinese vaccine.
I'll try to address your concerns. Let me preface this by saying I also really don't like the Chinese government and their policies, so for political reasons I didn't really want to support their "vaccine diplomacy". I would have actually preferred to wait 4-6 months before getting a vaccine for several reasons. 1-I'm not at risk (still young and healthy) 2-I'd like to wait and "see". However, given that I work in the medical field (though I'm no doctor!), I was pretty much required to get one early on.

Now let's move on to the medical fears, which I think are basically down to lack of understanding/research. Let me admit that I actually made fun of Sinovac at first as its efficiency was announced as being only 50.5% by the Brazilians back in Jan. However, I dug deeper to get a better understanding so I’m willing to admit I’m swallowing my earlier words. Basically, the Chinese just made sure it was safe and then estimated effectiveness at like 80+%, but left it up to purchasers to make their own studies (compared to western companies who do it all themselves to get approval). In a way, that works out better as I prefer the transparency of a Brazilian/Turkish study than a Chinese one. I wouldn’t have taken it had it only been based on Chinese numbers.

You can easily find yourself the results from the Butantan Institute (a reputable research facility, with almost a century of experience and very regular contributions to medical journals) both in English and Portuguese as it's a large study on both safety and effectiveness from a reputable source. I'll try to summarize it and explain why the vaccine got downgraded to 50.4% vs an earlier rating of 70%+, and why it got 90%+ in the Turkish study:
1. The Brazilians divided participants into a whopping six categories (symptomatic, very mild, mild, two levels of moderate, and severe). Most western manufacturers only use 3 categories (mild/moderate and severe).
2. The Brazilians also only used PCR tests to determine if someone was positive, vs the Turks who needed a PCR test AND at least one symptom to be deemed “infected”. So the likelihood of more people “getting” Covid is higher in the Brazilian study.
3. The Brazilians exclusively used front-line hospital staff in their study (vs average people in the Turkish one).

As mentioned, the Brazilians' earlier estimate was 78% but it dropped to 50.4% after including those with “very mild” symptoms + asymptomatic. However, the bottom line is that it was 100% effective at preventing anything from the categories of severe/requiring hospitalization to death (4 out of their 6 categories). Turks gave an overall higher effectiveness (90%+), but as mentioned, the two-fold reason for that is a. them using more of a “normal/every day Joe” population sample with less of a risk of exposure/higher viral loads compared to the Brazilian medical workers who were basically exposed on a daily basis, as well as b. requiring a symptom AND PCR test to avoid false positives/totally asymptomatic people.

Finally, as Brody says, this is akin to Chernobyl in terms of the Chinese losing face on the international stage. They fucked already by letting this virus get out of hand so their PR is already in the mud, and rightly so. They also took their sweet ass time to share information on it for a while as they were likely already trying to beat others to the inevitable vaccine race to try to recoup PR points. As mentioned, they can't afford another fuck up/loss of face on the world stage. At the end of the day, it's up to the person getting vaccinated to do their own due diligence and read up on the aforementioned studies. Their numbers/safety record and all that can easily be accessed.

Besides, everyone knows Bill Gates is behind all the Western vaccines and those will just make you sterile...
FWIW, Brazil manufactured the vaccine themselves. So, using their data is like saying the India AZ and Oxfrod AZ are exactly the same, which they are not. Different countries have different standards, especially when it comes to manufacturing.
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus »

Good point, but they used it under license, so the differences (if any) would be minute. Your fear is a QC issue then?
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Re: Does anyone know if we can get one of the vaccines?

Post by Brody »

timmydownawell wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:22 pm OK well it dried enough for me to g̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶r̶ go to the Phsar Chas Sangkat. The word is "No vaccine, come back next month".
Thanks for the report.

I'll chock that up as progress, seeing as they didn't tell you to "go to your embassy".
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