What is news and who should pay whom, is almost irrelevant here. imo
Hair splitting.
The simple fact is, Facebook is destroying real journalism - something that has always been regarded as a crucial cornerstone of Democracy's success.
(and rearranging many other things, but journalism is the particular issue here)

Facebook and the other monopolistic tech behemoths are taking us to places we don't want to go.
You cannot just allow the marketplace giants to set the scene and dictate the terms of our civilisation's future.
It is up to society, "we the people", to setup the world as WE choose. Not Mark Zuckerburg.

Q/Who really wants to follow Zuckerberg's full wet dream - with him and Bezos and Gates and Ma and maybe 2 or 3 other pox- spotted billionaire geeks pulling all our strings?
A/ Nobody. (almost)

So reign them in. Teach them a few lessons on who is in charge
Apply the the bit, the bridle, the saddle and the spurs.
and the whip - because it will be needed.

just my view, and i freely admit to always being a resister to TechLife Inc and it's pox-spotted values.

I have no problem with your argument SAA but if that is what drives government decision making on this matter they should just come out and say it as plainly.

I've been waiting for a country to stand up to Zuckerberg. Australia is perfect for the job, they won't take any shit from him.

The problem is this might be a proxy war on behalf of many governments around the world who also harbour great misgivings about these giant tech companies and the power they have. The want to clip their wings and tax them properly but they are slippery bastards who believe they are above this old fashioned taxation on profits model - it's so analogue man!

You have to factor in that their home country is the US, so if you piss off Big Tech, they have an awful lot of access to US government and lobbying firepower. Lots of moving parts here.

Facebook could eventually drop the big bomb and suspend all Australian Facebook accounts if this escalates all the way. How much mass hysteria and mental trauma would be caused by this? Millions of very pissed off people who's portal to the world and all their 'friends' is suddenly slammed shut. In the grand scheme of things Australia is not that big to Facebook. Could it bring down a government? Maybe.

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:18 pm I've been waiting for a country to stand up to Zuckerberg. Australia is perfect for the job, they won't take any shit from him.

The problem is this might be a proxy war on behalf of many governments around the world who also harbour great misgivings about these giant tech companies and the power they have. The want to clip their wings and tax them properly but they are slippery bastards who believe they are above this old fashioned taxation on profits model - it's so analogue man!

You have to factor in that their home country is the US, so if you piss off Big Tech, they have an awful lot of access to US government and lobbying firepower. Lots of moving parts here.

Facebook could eventually drop the big bomb and suspend all Australian Facebook accounts if this escalates all the way. How much mass hysteria and mental trauma would be caused by this? Millions of very pissed off people who's portal to the world and all their 'friends' is suddenly slammed shut. In the grand scheme of things Australia is not that big to Facebook. Could it bring down a government? Maybe.

Even just blocking news sites could bring down the government if there was an election, simply by reducing Murdoch media's reach. Would be the biggest own goal for the Coalition ever if this happened. I feel sorry for smaller media layers caught up in this but I don't feel at all sorry for News Corp, Nine/Fairfax or Seven.

timmydownawell wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:26 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:18 pm I've been waiting for a country to stand up to Zuckerberg. Australia is perfect for the job, they won't take any shit from him.

The problem is this might be a proxy war on behalf of many governments around the world who also harbour great misgivings about these giant tech companies and the power they have. The want to clip their wings and tax them properly but they are slippery bastards who believe they are above this old fashioned taxation on profits model - it's so analogue man!

You have to factor in that their home country is the US, so if you piss off Big Tech, they have an awful lot of access to US government and lobbying firepower. Lots of moving parts here.

Facebook could eventually drop the big bomb and suspend all Australian Facebook accounts if this escalates all the way. How much mass hysteria and mental trauma would be caused by this? Millions of very pissed off people who's portal to the world and all their 'friends' is suddenly slammed shut. In the grand scheme of things Australia is not that big to Facebook. Could it bring down a government? Maybe.

Even just blocking news sites could bring down the government if there was an election, simply by reducing Murdoch media's reach. Would be the biggest own goal for the Coalition ever if this happened. I feel sorry for smaller media layers caught up in this but I don't feel at all sorry for News Corp, Nine/Fairfax or Seven.

My understanding, which could be wrong, is that the smaller publications wouldn’t even benefit from the new legislation, so it would only serve to have dominators gain even more power .... and people use defending solid journalism as an argument. Pffft

violet wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:49 pm

timmydownawell wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:26 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:18 pm I've been waiting for a country to stand up to Zuckerberg. Australia is perfect for the job, they won't take any shit from him.

The problem is this might be a proxy war on behalf of many governments around the world who also harbour great misgivings about these giant tech companies and the power they have. The want to clip their wings and tax them properly but they are slippery bastards who believe they are above this old fashioned taxation on profits model - it's so analogue man!

You have to factor in that their home country is the US, so if you piss off Big Tech, they have an awful lot of access to US government and lobbying firepower. Lots of moving parts here.

Facebook could eventually drop the big bomb and suspend all Australian Facebook accounts if this escalates all the way. How much mass hysteria and mental trauma would be caused by this? Millions of very pissed off people who's portal to the world and all their 'friends' is suddenly slammed shut. In the grand scheme of things Australia is not that big to Facebook. Could it bring down a government? Maybe.

Even just blocking news sites could bring down the government if there was an election, simply by reducing Murdoch media's reach. Would be the biggest own goal for the Coalition ever if this happened. I feel sorry for smaller media layers caught up in this but I don't feel at all sorry for News Corp, Nine/Fairfax or Seven.

My understanding, which could be wrong, is that the smaller publications wouldn’t even benefit from the new legislation, so it would only serve to have dominators gain even more power .... and people use defending solid journalism as an argument. Pffft

Exactly. So it comes back to the question as to why the Coalition govt introduced the legislation in the first place and yes you have already answered that as I have previously.

If the government truly wanted to help (all) news media in Australia in a difficult environment, they would find a way to tax FB and Google and then provide funding/assistance to all news media equitably. In reality they should (also?) do something to break the majority ownership of news from News Corp. Either way they need a way to get FB/Google to pay tax.

The phrase "Alligator mouth, tweety bird ass" springs to mind when contemplating the ill advised adventures of Scomo.
He speaks in tongues you know, if you did not know, that is a language only understood by the speaker and God.
Much like his policies.

Hi Violet, how is this for the Gov laying it out clear? >

Government to escalate Facebook feud by pulling advertising spend potentially worth millions of dollars
The federal government is pulling all its advertising campaigns from Facebook, as the social media platform continues to block Australians from accessing news.

Finance Minister Simon Birmingham, who oversees public expenditure, said on Monday that the ban would be extended across the government.
"My expectation is that we will pull back from advertising while they undertake this type of terrible activity of pulling down sites inappropriately, seeking to exert power or influence over our democratic systems," he told Radio National.

"We won't tolerate that, we will be standing firm on the legislation and looking at all those advertising points."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-22/ ... g/13177688

Tim, you should know Au is starting to tax these tech bandits.
It is one of the countries leading the way, again.
(albiet not huge amount of dollars. yet. They are also being realist in their aims and taking a sensible long term approach)

ALSO the Gov is directing a couple of hundred mill to rural and other small-med media along with other initiatives like cadet journalist training and support.
This is not normal economic-rationalist policy, it goes right across their grain - But they are at least making a genuine, if inadequate, attempt at addressing your issues.

Credit where credit is due i reckon.
Praising Scomo goes right against my grain too, but this is radical action they are taking. Hardcore.
They obviously see the dangers.

Government should work on the tax issue. If News Corp etc are feeling hard done by from FB it's not the government's issue. They shouldn't be involved.

In breaking news: Aust government has apparently capitulated, and has watered down their media legislation, so Facebook will be restoring news site today.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-23/ ... e/13173984