Khmu Nation wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:52 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:14 pm

Big Daikon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:30 am

Khmu Nation wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:23 am

Doc67 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:31 am

I have (had) a friend that got into meth about one year ago; or rather admitted he was using it. It was certainly a new habit and there were no obvious changes at that time.

One year later and he is a total wreck. Lost loads of weight, babbles on about the same issues and subjects endlessly, thinks his phone is being hacked all the time, twitchy and fidgety, lost his passport through theft - no doubt by one of the meth heads he shags from WholeFoods.

Everyone has given up on him, nobody wants to be near him. He's currently on the missing list and has been for over a month. When I first met him in 2017 he was one of the most sensible people I knew. I fully expect to see him in the Newsworthy section in the fullness of time.

To class meth as "no worse than alcohol" is daft. From what I have seen, meth dealers should be set on fire.

Okay - I smoked meth for 6 years, took heroin for 12 years, marijuana for about a decade, extacy for 5 years, alcohol for the last 35 years (still going), LSD every weekend during my teens, ketamine for about 3 years, cocaine for about a decade. Im fine, in good health, employed, family man.

Whats your point regarding your buddy?

Some cigarette smokers live into their 90s. It's called beating the odds. Doesn't mean these substances are harmless.

(I am stunned you're alive.)

I personally don't have a problem with people choosing to do meth, opiates etc, if they want to fuck up their bodies that's their business... I generally don't care what people do as long as it only affects them.

But the problem with meth (and other hard drugs) is it doesn't only affect them, it's a scourge on society and far from harmless.

Where I live at the moment, we have a meth epidemic. How it manifests itself in society is a massive increase in crime.

It sucks worrying your house might get burgled while you're at work, or your work truck might get robbed while you're on a job and you lose your tools - I've been hit and almost everyone I know who works out of a ute or van and carries their tools with them has been hit too, as have a lot of my neighbours. Corner shops are getting robbed regularly. There are people walking around looking for any opportunity to steal something because they have an expensive meth habit and even if they could hold down a job, there's no way a job would support their habit.

Then there's the gang thing. They run the drug scene and are expanding their numbers because they're at war with the other gangs over drug turf. This means a lot more methed out, unstable nutters out there, and they've started shooting at each other pretty much every night lately too.

Teachers, social workers,police ... people like that are saying they're seeing a lot more domestic violence, hungry neglected kids, truancy, and all the shit that goes with parents being too involved in the meth to look after their kids. That inevitably leads to more problems when the kids end up on the streets getting into trouble.

This is the real harm as far as I'm concerned.

Good to see having meth illegal is working out in your neighborhood then.

As stated I am not saying drugs are great. I'm saying they should be legalized and controlled.

See the rat park drug experiment for details.

I don't disagree with you, I think the war on drugs has shown itself to be an abject failure yet we keep doing it thinking somehow it'll improve the situation.

How does the saying go? The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and wondering why you keep seeing the same results.

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:04 pm
I don't disagree with you, I think the war on drugs has shown itself to be an abject failure yet we keep doing it thinking somehow it'll improve the situation.

How does the saying go? The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and wondering why you keep seeing the same results.

What an ironic comment.

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:11 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:04 pm
I don't disagree with you, I think the war on drugs has shown itself to be an abject failure yet we keep doing it thinking somehow it'll improve the situation.

How does the saying go? The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and wondering why you keep seeing the same results.

What an ironic comment.

How so?

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:13 pm

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:11 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:04 pm
I don't disagree with you, I think the war on drugs has shown itself to be an abject failure yet we keep doing it thinking somehow it'll improve the situation.

How does the saying go? The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and wondering why you keep seeing the same results.

What an ironic comment.

How so?

You are lamenting this alleged "War on Drugs" which is a decades long propaganda campaign being projected by entities that are actually using drugs for their various wars on people and then going around in circles arguing if drug addicts are weak for allowing "innocuous" drugs to destroy them and others around them or if they are reprehensible in general for being immoral/defective enough to become addicted to them.

Meanwhile the real villains and ALL their flying monkeys, meaning anyone who works in support of the deep state and there are many, are consistently let off the hook, some respected or even admired by the same people who denounce drugs and drug users.

How many expats in Cambodia flaunt and brag about exploits w CIA or do work w adjacent groups and are accepted, respected, or even revered?

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/w ... -addiction

That's the rat park experiment.

Again I am not saying drugs are great. They are anything but.

However to blame societies ills on drugs is erroneous. If anything its the other way round.

Prohibition has failed. Time to try something new.

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:19 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:13 pm

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:11 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:04 pm
I don't disagree with you, I think the war on drugs has shown itself to be an abject failure yet we keep doing it thinking somehow it'll improve the situation.

How does the saying go? The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and wondering why you keep seeing the same results.

What an ironic comment.

How so?

You are lamenting this alleged "War on Drugs" which is a decades long propaganda campaign being projected by entities that are actually using drugs for their various wars on people in then going around in circles arguing if drug addicts are weak for allowing the drugs to destroy them and others around them or they are reprehensible in general for being immoral to become addicted to them.

I didn't say that at all. I said that drugs (meth specifically) are harmful to society. And they are.

I never said anything about drug addicts being weak, or reprehensible, or immoral.
EDIT: And that stuff about the CIA, Deep State etc.... I think you're reading WAAAAAY too much into what I said.

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:31 pm

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:19 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:13 pm

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:11 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:04 pm
I don't disagree with you, I think the war on drugs has shown itself to be an abject failure yet we keep doing it thinking somehow it'll improve the situation.

How does the saying go? The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and wondering why you keep seeing the same results.

What an ironic comment.

How so?

You are lamenting this alleged "War on Drugs" which is a decades long propaganda campaign being projected by entities that are actually using drugs for their various wars on people in then going around in circles arguing if drug addicts are weak for allowing the drugs to destroy them and others around them or they are reprehensible in general for being immoral to become addicted to them.

I didn't say that at all. I said that drugs (meth specifically) are harmful to society. And they are.

I never said anything about drug addicts being weak, or reprehensible, or immoral.

But none of these comments come even close to talking about why it's happening and who it's really coming from. The "War on Drugs" is a farce largely propagated by the people in power and those under them who are in reality the biggest drug pushers in the world, not the patsies being prosecuted.

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:38 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:31 pm

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:19 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:13 pm

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:11 pm

What an ironic comment.

How so?

You are lamenting this alleged "War on Drugs" which is a decades long propaganda campaign being projected by entities that are actually using drugs for their various wars on people in then going around in circles arguing if drug addicts are weak for allowing the drugs to destroy them and others around them or they are reprehensible in general for being immoral to become addicted to them.

I didn't say that at all. I said that drugs (meth specifically) are harmful to society. And they are.

I never said anything about drug addicts being weak, or reprehensible, or immoral.

But none of these comments come even close to talking about why it's happening and who it's really coming from. The "War on Drugs" is a farce largely propagated by the people in power and those under them who are in reality the biggest drug pushers in the world, not the patsies being prosecuted.

Ok, but so what?

Dude, all I said is I think drugs harm society. And they do.

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:43 pm

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:38 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:31 pm

khmerovitch wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:19 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:13 pm

How so?

You are lamenting this alleged "War on Drugs" which is a decades long propaganda campaign being projected by entities that are actually using drugs for their various wars on people in then going around in circles arguing if drug addicts are weak for allowing the drugs to destroy them and others around them or they are reprehensible in general for being immoral to become addicted to them.

I didn't say that at all. I said that drugs (meth specifically) are harmful to society. And they are.

I never said anything about drug addicts being weak, or reprehensible, or immoral.

But none of these comments come even close to talking about why it's happening and who it's really coming from. The "War on Drugs" is a farce largely propagated by the people in power and those under them who are in reality the biggest drug pushers in the world, not the patsies being prosecuted.

Ok, but so what?

Dude, all I said is I think drugs harm society. And they do.

"It sucks worrying your house might get burgled while you're at work, or your work truck might get robbed while you're on a job and you lose your tools - I've been hit and almost everyone I know who works out of a ute or van and carries their tools with them has been hit too, as have a lot of my neighbours. Corner shops are getting robbed regularly. There are people walking around looking for any opportunity to steal something because they have an expensive meth habit and even if they could hold down a job, there's no way a job would support their habit.

Then there's the gang thing. They run the drug scene and are expanding their numbers because they're at war with the other gangs over drug turf. This means a lot more methed out, unstable nutters out there, and they've started shooting at each other pretty much every night lately too."

"I don't disagree with you, I think the war on drugs has shown itself to be an abject failure yet we keep doing it thinking somehow it'll improve the situation.

How does the saying go? The definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and wondering why you keep seeing the same results."
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My point was that this is an ironic comment and I stand by that.

Not sure what you're saying I misunderstood but it's frustrating when people have all the time and words for effects of a problem and not a single one for the legit cause. For sure the preference to focus on the human collateral damage of deep state warfare and NOT the greedy imperialists and morally ambiguous careerists is a psychosocial phenomenon and a mixture of various cognitive distortions on a grand scale.

Also this conversation is making me want to do drugs so maybe you're also a part of the problem in an even more direct way..

And by the way I hate drugs! As an American who was prescribed the pill form of the drug we are speaking about, among a rotation of several others, from a very young age, I REALLY hate them! Which is why it's upsetting to me that these people, these CRIMINALS, are getting away with genocide, over and over.

They are never subjected to the same ire as the users, patsies, mules, etc., that's for sure.

This has often been my experience when I've gone out of my way to validate opinions - whether it's about Ukraine, the CIA, drug trafficking, or whatever issues - to an incredulous person. I can unpack whatever evidence, sources, reasoning, etc. to support what I'm saying and at the end of it all the response is "OK, well so what?"

And more often than not it was they who both instigated and protracted the "debate"!

Random Dude wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:31 pm

I said that drugs (meth specifically) are harmful to society. And they are.

You are right, drugs are harmful to society. The point is that many people, myself included, feel prohibition makes them even more harmful. They aren't going away and they will never be eradicated. Also they are easily available in abundance everywhere - as well as used repsonsibly in moderation by millions. Plus it generates billions of $.

Time for a rethink.