orussey98 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:15 pm

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:41 pm

orussey98 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:15 pm There you go, recent one by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ioannidis

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epd ... /eci.13484

LOL:

....Ioannidis widely promoted a study of which he had been co-author, "COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California", released as a preprint on April 17, 2020. It asserted that Santa Clara County's number of infections was more than 50 times higher than the official count, putting the virus’s fatality rate as low as 0.1% to 0.2%.[30] Ioannidis concluded from the study that the coronavirus is "not the apocalyptic problem we thought".[31] The message found favor with right-wing media outlets, but the paper dismayed epidemiologists who said its testing was inaccurate and its methods were sloppy.[32][33][34] Writing for Wired, David H. Freedman said that the Santa Clara study compromised Ioannidis' previously excellent reputation and meant that future generations of scientists may remember him as "the fringe scientist who pumped up a bad study that supported a crazy right-wing conspiracy theory in the middle of a massive health crisis."[6] On May 11, the study's authors revised the study with new figures

I understand.
Conspiracist is the new word for those who do not fall in line.
Time will tell who the fascists were.

The facts will tell in the end. In the meantime, the estimates made by Ioannidis were way out (unless you don't believe the worldometers stats ):

During the beginning of the pandemic, John Ioannidis, a well-respected researcher at Stanford University, was vocally opposed to lockdown. His theory, based on early observational data, was that Covid-19 mortality was much lower than the scientific consensus assumed. In the scientific world, Ioannidis was treated critically, but seriously.
Studies trying to determine the true rate of infection to mortality are ongoing. But in the press, Ioannidis was cited in countless columns, penned articles of his own, and called lockdown a “once-in-a-century evidence fiasco”. His prediction, in April, that the US would have “fewer than 40,000 deaths” turned out to be a gross underestimate.

World / Countries / United States
Last updated: January 30, 2021, 15:01 GMT

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

How do you account for the outbreaks in Australia? - up to 700 new cases per day and going exponential.
They then employ targeted lockdowns, mass testing and quarantine measures - and the outbreaks go to double donuts very quickly. (O new cases, O deaths)

To back up Clutch's point.
You cannot compare the late, incompetent, half measures that EU and USA have employed (so as not to disrupt The Ekomony) with Oz and Kiwiland.

If anything Au and NZ have proven that only FULL measures work.
You MUST listen and follow the epidemiologist, not just pick and choose the bits you want.
and PS, look at the financial stats. This is the only way to protect your economy too.

You guys (Eu, UK, USA) let your BigBiz hold your governments back from responding speedily and effectively and the results
are an unnecessary catastrophe.
FFS, open borders in a pandemic???? Epidemiology #101 since time began.

clutchcargo wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:57 pm

samrong01 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:07 pm There is a good reason why Cambodia never features in lists of countries with low incidence of the virus. It clearly demonstrates that lockdowns, masks, and all the ridiculous measures taken by western governments have no effect whatsoever. This does not sit well with governments whose objective is to use the pandemic to increase their power and control over their people, so they pretend Cambodia does not exist. By doing nothing other than destroying the tourist industry and children's education (for no good reason), Cambodia is actually number 1 in the world for avoiding the virus with Laos number 2. It is ridiculous to say that New Zealand is best when they have had some deaths in a much smaller population while Cambodia has had none. New Zealand is best only of the countries that believe that draconian measures are the answer.

The study by the University of Grenoble clearly established that there is no relationship between government measures and the progress of the virus and Cambodia is proof of the truth of that.

Can you give us a link to that study? I googled the above bolded but couldn't readily see anything.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 04339/full
Above is a link to the full results of the study including onwards links to appendices.

I'd be very interested to know if they have done sewage testing for Covid here. And if they did, whether they detected it. I know some of you suspect it's lurking here undetected (and it's not impossible).

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:04 am How do you account for the outbreaks in Australia? - up to 700 new cases per day and going exponential.
They then employ targeted lockdowns, mass testing and quarantine measures - and the outbreaks go to double donuts very quickly. (O new cases, O deaths)

To back up Clutch's point.
You cannot compare the late, incompetent, half measures that EU and USA have employed (so as not to disrupt The Ekomony) with Oz and Kiwiland.

If anything Au and NZ have proven that only FULL measures work.
You MUST listen and follow the epidemiologist, not just pick and choose the bits you want.
and PS, look at the financial stats. This is the only way to protect your economy too.

You guys (Eu, UK, USA) let your BigBiz hold your governments back from responding speedily and effectively and the results
are an unnecessary catastrophe.
FFS, open borders in a pandemic???? Epidemiology #101 since time began.

I disagree that Australia or NZ have proven that full measures work. In any pandemic cases go up and cases go down. The difficulty is in proving that cases went down due to government measures. Nobody has been able to prove a link between government measures and outcomes - in fact the opposite has been shown. Vietnam and Cambodia are perfect examples - one draconian, one not: outcome in Cambodia is better. The opinion of an Epidemiologist is just an opinion - opinion is not science. Have you seen some of their opinions? Fauci now says you should wear TWO masks. This is just lunacy - how are you supposed to breathe? Michael Baker, the epidemiologist in charge of NZ, has lunatic views on locking up the population indefinitely.

There are many doctors and epidemiologists who have different opinions but these are suppressed because they do not fit with what governments want to hear. Do not listen to opinions - look at actual studies and importantly look at history. The 1968 Hong Kong flu was very similar to the current outbreak but without the hysteria. Very little action was taken at the time and the virus faded away although its still around and still kills a few tens of thousands a year. There were no economic consequences yet well over a million people died. The current outbreak will follow a similar course but this time the hysteria will destroy many more lives.