What's the alternative go off grid become a recluse?
I just accepted it I need to talk to my mum O/S

WhatsApp users are really Facebook customers now – it's getting harder to forget that
Alex Hern, 11 Jan 2021

Thankfully, there are alternative options, the most well-known of which is Signal, a free app developed by the non-profit that created WhatsApp’s own encryption system. With its roots in the privacy and security community, Signal’s technical underpinnings are second to none, and the app has spent the past few years working on becoming a viable alternative to slick user-focused services such as Facebook Messenger, without compromising on the features that make it a must-have for its more paranoid user base.

It should be no surprise that Signal is a viable alternative to WhatsApp: the non-profit which currently bankrolls the app was started with a $50m loan from Brian Acton, the co-founder of WhatsApp itself. Alternatively, you could listen to Elon Musk, who this week tweeted the simple message “use Signal”. He’s now the richest person in the world, so he must be right about something, it seems.

Whether you decide to switch or not – or just to set up a back-up chat app in case you feel the need to change down the line – the important thing is to make an active choice, and not allow a thousand small changes to add up a state of affairs you’d never have actively agreed to. We can’t all read the terms and conditions, but we can at least pause before clicking “Agree”.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... acy-policy

Ordering a Pizza in 2022

CALLER:
Is this Pizza Hut?

GOOGLE:
No sir, it's Google Pizza.

CALLER:
I must have dialed a wrong number, sorry.

GOOGLE:
No sir, Google bought Pizza Hut last month.

CALLER:
OK. I would like to order a pizza.

GOOGLE:
Do you want your usual, sir?

CALLER:
My usual? You know me?

GOOGLE:
According to our caller ID data sheet, the last 12 times you called you ordered an extra-large pizza with three cheeses, sausage, pepperoni, mushrooms and meatballs on a thick crust.

CALLER:
Super! That’s what I’ll have.

GOOGLE:
May I suggest that this time you order a pizza with ricotta, arugula, sun-dried tomatoes and olives on a whole wheat gluten-free thin crust?

CALLER:
What? I don’t want a vegetarian pizza!

GOOGLE:
Your cholesterol is not good, sir.

CALLER:
How the hell do you know that?

GOOGLE:
Well, we cross-referenced your home phone number with your medical records. We have the result of your blood tests for the last 7 years.

CALLER:
Okay, but I do not want your rotten vegetarian pizza! I already take medication for my cholesterol.

GOOGLE:
Excuse me sir, but you have not taken your medication regularly. According to our database, you purchased only a box of 30 cholesterol tablets once at Lloyds Pharmacy, 4 months ago.

CALLER:
I bought more from another Pharmacy.

GOOGLE:
That doesn’t show on your credit card statement.

CALLER:
I paid in cash.

GOOGLE:
But you did not withdraw enough cash according to your bank statement.

CALLER:
I have other sources of cash.

GOOGLE:
That doesn’t show on your latest tax returns, unless you bought them using an undeclared income source, which is against the law!

CALLER:
WHAT THE HELL!

GOOGLE:
I'm sorry sir, we use such information only with the sole intention of helping you.

CALLER:
Enough already! I'm sick to death of Google, Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp and all the others. I'm going to the islands, without the internet, TV, where there is no phone service and no one to watch me or spy on me.

GOOGLE:
I understand sir, but you need to renew your passport first. It expired 6 weeks ago...

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:42 am For once I'm not here begging for tech advice on simple things.

I received a message on WhatsApp from a friend in the UK saying that once WhatsApp changes it's terms and gives Facebook access he will be moving to Signal and deleting his account. This is due within a month.

Facebook already owns WhatsApp so I would of thought they were already doing this in some way, but a quick search threw this up:

WhatsApp is forcing users to share data with Facebook

https://www.shacknews.com/article/12209 ... collection.

Does anyone know if this will have any impact on me? I don't have a Facebook account so I can't see how this will affect me, unless they are going to start demanding I do get a FB account, at which point I'll be deleting too.

Anyone know anything about this and is it anything to be concerned about?

As a hypothetical doc, you, Stan Smith, and bob jones, decide to meet up in pp, you and Stan smith use Facebook/WhatsApp, bob jones does not. You take a photo of the three of you enjoying your beers, you post it, you have now given face etc. bob jones photo, name and address (if in your contacts), location, and that he has some relationship to you and Stan Smith. All without bob jones consent. Is that right? To me it’s a clear invasion of privacy.

Clemen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:06 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:42 am For once I'm not here begging for tech advice on simple things.

I received a message on WhatsApp from a friend in the UK saying that once WhatsApp changes it's terms and gives Facebook access he will be moving to Signal and deleting his account. This is due within a month.

Facebook already owns WhatsApp so I would of thought they were already doing this in some way, but a quick search threw this up:

WhatsApp is forcing users to share data with Facebook

https://www.shacknews.com/article/12209 ... collection.

Does anyone know if this will have any impact on me? I don't have a Facebook account so I can't see how this will affect me, unless they are going to start demanding I do get a FB account, at which point I'll be deleting too.

Anyone know anything about this and is it anything to be concerned about?

As a hypothetical doc, you, Stan Smith, and bob jones, decide to meet up in pp, you and Stan smith use Facebook/WhatsApp, bob jones does not. You take a photo of the three of you enjoying your beers, you post it, you have now given face etc. bob jones photo, name and address (if in your contacts), location, and that he has some relationship to you and Stan Smith. All without bob jones consent. Is that right? To me it’s a clear invasion of privacy.

FB would argue that you are in a public place and therefore do not have an expectation of privacy. If it happened in your own home, FB would argue that they are not a publisher, they are a platform and therefore the responsibility is down to the person who posted your picture, not them. If you are still not happy and decided to take legal action, FB would simply hire a better lawyer than you. Welcome the world.

To me, that’s a bit of a straw man argument.
My question is whether it’s an invasion of bobs privacy, this is all the more relevant since third parties (I.e clearview, and whoever nation states) scrape their content.
“WhatsApp, the Facebook-owned messenger that claims to have privacy coded into its DNA, is giving its 2 billion plus users an ultimatum: agree to share their personal data with the social network or delete their accounts.”
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... g-the-app/
Read the comments, nobody who knows about tech thinks this is a good thing.

Ultimately, anything you put online (and much that you don't) is connected and accessible to those with the right tools or passwords. I think all we little people can do is make getting access to our details just a little bit harder.
Today's security news is a harsh reminder: Parler's content (including deleted posts), has been accessed and downloaded by "security researchers." What else did they access? The users' locations and govt issued IDs.
The list of personal-info-holding websites that haven't been hacked is getting shorter by the day.
https://cybernews.com/news/70tb-of-parl ... searchers/

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:43 am yea covering their ass but is it true?

WhatsApp stresses privacy as users flock to rivals

"The policy update does not affect the privacy of your messages with friends or family in any way," Mosseri said.
The update regards how merchants using WhatsApp to chat with customers can share data with Facebook, which could use the information for targeting ads, according to the social network.

"We can't see your private messages or hear your calls, and neither can Facebook," WhatsApp said in a blog post.

"We don't keep logs of who everyone is messaging or calling. We can't see your shared location and neither can Facebook."

Location data along with message contents is encrypted end-to-end, according to WhatsApp.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2050211

They can say what they like. For as long as Whatsapp remains closed source, unlike many rivals such as Telegram and Signal, there is no way of verifying what happens to your private data. I'm glad this has happened to be honest. It has started a much needed debate amongst users, both techie ones and non techie ones, surrounding what big tech does with our private data.

If Facebook is to learn anything from all of this, it's that it's brand and public image is so tarnished that people flee on mass at the very mention of Facebook being involved in anything.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Techno ... 2&si=44594

Asians dump WhatsApp for Signal and Telegram on privacy concerns
Facebook risks losing top markets as users look for more-secure alternatives


WhatsApp's rivals, Signal and Telegram, have seen a record-breaking amount of downloads in recent days after WhatsApp dismayed many users by rewriting its terms of use. (Photo by Ken Kobayashi)
MICHELLE CHAN, KIRAN SHARMA and DYLAN LOH, Nikkei staff writersJanuary 14, 2021 13:36 JST

HONG KONG/NEW DELHI/SINGAPORE -- A theme has been trending on social media over the past week in Hong Kong, which has come increasingly under the watchful eye of Beijing after a national security law imposed on the territory last year.

"We made it from ICQ to MSN, from MSN to WhatsApp. It's not that hard to switch to another app!" The line refers to popular instant messaging tools that have come and gone over past 20 years.

It is an indication that people in the city have joined social media users around the globe in a shift to other messaging platforms because of concerns over privacy, after WhatsApp dismayed many users by rewriting its terms of use on Jan. 6.

The new terms will essentially allow Facebook, WhatsApp's owner, to gain access to certain personal information, such as contact lists, location, financial information and usage data.

Since then, WhatsApp's rivals have seen a record-breaking amount of downloads.

Signal, a private messaging app, logged 7.5 million downloads globally between Jan. 6 and Jan. 10 following endorsements from the likes of Tesla CEO Elon Musk and former U.S. National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden. That marks a 43-fold increase from the previous week, according to Sensor Tower, an app-analytics company.


Awareness for data privacy has grown in Hong Kong following anti-government demonstrations in 2019, when protesters used anonymous messaging apps to avoid surveillance. © Reuters

Another messaging app, Telegram, said it amassed more than 25 million new users around the world between Jan. 10 and Jan. 12, helping it surpass 500 million active users -- compared with WhatsApp's 2 billion monthly active users as of February last year.

Despite reassurances from WhatsApp that the company does not, and cannot, access private conversations as they are automatically encrypted end-to-end, it has failed to halt the mass migration.

Signal and Telegram have topped both Apple and Google's app stores in several countries over the past week, including the U.S., several European nations, and Asian countries where WhatsApp is the dominant messenger.

"After seeing the long list of personal data declarations from WhatsApp, I decided to shift [to] Signal in order to protect my privacy," said Kwok Ka-wing, chairman of the Hong Kong Financial Industry Employees General Union, adding that he is wary of the overreaching control of Big Tech companies.

Kwok is among the scores of activists, scholars and celebrities in Hong Kong who called for people to abandon WhatsApp, which is used by close to 80% of the city's population. Awareness for data privacy and security has grown in the financial hub following the widespread anti-government protests in 2019, when protesters used anonymous messaging apps to avoid police surveillance.

"The migration to Signal reflects growing concerns with privacy and security more in general and losing trust in WhatsApp, and Facebook, more specifically," said Lokman Tsui, an assistant professor at the Chinese University of Hong Kong who specializes in privacy and online communications.

"Facebook promised it would not force WhatsApp to share data with them when they bought WhatsApp," he said. "They have broken that promise."

Tsui added that Signal, a nonprofit app that collects only the absolute necessary metadata, made it stand out in an increasingly crowded app field. Signal is supported by donations, including a $50 million loan from its co-founder Brian Acton, who also helped create WhatsApp and has long been an advocate for data privacy.


Some analysts believe that India, WhatsApp's largest single market with a strong 400-million user base, will not be affected in a major way despite the exodus being reported elsewhere. © Reuters

To bring more people to Signal, Fiona Wong, 26, a graphic designer in Hong Kong, has contributed to a public database that makes WhatsApp stickers usable on Signal.

"I hope this will provide more incentive for my friends and other people to migrate," she said. "At the end of the day, the success of a messaging app only hinges on whether people around you are actively using it," she said.

WhatsApp's new privacy rules are aimed at facilitating advertisement placement on other Facebook-owned platforms. This allows Facebook to monetize the free messaging service that it acquired for $19 billion in 2014. Users who refuse to agree to the new terms that start Feb. 8 can only use limited functions afterward.

Hong Kong's privacy watchdog has urged WhatsApp to delay the deadline and to "provide practical alternatives" for those who do not agree to the new terms to continue to use the service.

For now, Europe is the only region in the world where WhatsApp's new privacy terms do not apply, as the European Union's stringent privacy laws empowered authorities to fine companies as much as 4% of global annual revenue if they run afoul of regulations.

Yet in India, WhatsApp's largest single market with a strong 400-million user base, some analysts believe it will not be affected in a major way despite the exodus being reported elsewhere.

"There will always be the more upwardly mobile, the more privacy-educated sort of strata of people which will move [to other apps], obviously, but we are not talking about two million users here," Sanchit Vir Gogia, chief analyst, founder and CEO of Greyhound Research, told Nikkei Asia.

"Even those two million, by the way, are not moving out of WhatsApp completely and moving in to, let's say, Signal or Telegram. They are adding on to it," he said.

"WhatsApp has committed itself to India in a very big way and essentially established the ecosystem of content players, of commerce players around it which allows it to thrive in the country," Gogia said. "Purely from that perspective, neither Signal nor Telegram has made any visible commitment to the country at all."


Digital messaging users in Singapore have increasingly adopted rival platforms to WhatsApp, such as Telegram, even before WhatsApp announced its updated terms of service. (Photo by Akira Kodaka)

Indeed, WhatsApp is commonly used by businesses in Asia to communicate with customers with many having chatbots tailored to the app. The company launched WhatsApp Business in early 2018 and has entered the payments realm in its two largest markets, India and Brazil.

Neha Bhatnagar, 40, a corporate communication professional in the Indian capital, said people in her contact list have started downloading Signal and Telegram in the past few days while remaining active on WhatsApp.

"I myself joined Signal on Monday just to see how many people I know are now on it and found that about 100 of more than 1,050 contacts in my phone had added Signal. But all my personal and official groups are still on WhatsApp and I intend to keep using the app," she said, adding, "Why should I switch over? Data on your phone and laptop is already compromised [or] leaked whichever app you are using. There's nothing called, 'privacy.'"

Gogia, however, said privacy is a very personal concept. "What may be very private to you, may not be private to me." He also noted that sensitivity to privacy in India is lower than in other Asian countries.

Digital messaging users in Singapore also have increasingly adopted rival platforms to WhatsApp, such as Telegram, even before WhatsApp announced its updated terms of service. But WhatsApp remains widely used. In a report published in February last year, data analysis platform DataReportal noted that 81% of internet users aged 16 to 64 in a survey said they used WhatsApp.

Su Lian Jye, principal analyst at technology analysis company ABI Research, said he has not observed an exodus from WhatsApp in Singapore.

"I think the prevailing attitudes that make WhatsApp sticky in Singapore are in the strength of WhatsApp's branding, the ease of use and simplicity," he said. "In the West, privacy and personal data protection are the main concerns. People are actively seeking out tools and solutions that prioritize these aspects."

There are those in the city-state, however, who are looking to leave WhatsApp.

Justin Kan, 37, a financial adviser, has downloaded Telegram and Signal to supplement his use of the Facebook-owned messaging platform. But Kan acknowledges he has been unable to completely ditch WhatsApp because most of his contacts are still using the platform, with fewer than 30 contacts on Signal.

"I still have to use WhatsApp," Kan said. "But lately, I have been seeing more and more people joining Signal and Telegram, which is encouraging. This means that many people are also starting to see the impact that apps like WhatsApp have on our privacy."

Similarly, Wong in Hong Kong admits that she cannot quit all Facebook-owned platforms overnight despite privacy concerns, given the lack of good alternatives.

"But if the WhatsApp migration can sustain, it will motivate more privacy-conscious companies to vie with Facebook and Instagram and provide users with more options," she said.