To be what it be or Not to be what it be. That is the question, bro.

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:03 am HMMM;

A high-quality, large-scale Danish study finds no evidence that wearing a face mask significantly minimizes people’s risk of contracting COVID-19. The randomized-control trial found no statistically significant difference in coronavirus infection rates between mask-wearers and non-mask-wearers. In fact, according to the data, mask usage may actually increase the likelihood of infection.

“The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use,” the authors summarized their results.

While mask-wearing has been advertised by health officials all around the world, including the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, to prevent the spread of the coronavirus, the Danish researchers found that there was no statistically significant difference between wearing a mask or not in preventing people from contracting COVID-19.

“In the third post hoc analysis, which investigated constellations of patient characteristics, we did not find a subgroup where face masks were effective at conventional levels of statistical significance,” researchers found.

The randomized-control trial, which is considered the “gold-standard” design for scientific research, had a large sample size of more than 6,000 people. Most studies conducted on various kinds of face masks against various coronaviruses are neither randomized, controlled trials nor conducted regarding the specific SARS-CoV-2 virus currently affecting the world.

This clinical trial was conducted from April through June in Denmark, a largely unmasked area with government recommendations only to social distance and wash hands frequently as the country began to reopen in May. Roughly half of the 6,024 participants, 4,862 of whom completed the study, were randomly assigned to wear surgical masks “outside the home among other persons together” while the other half continued to operate in public without a mask.

After a month, 42 of the mask-wearers in the study (1.8 percent) were infected with the virus while 53 of the non-mask-wearers (2.1. percent) were infected with the virus. Statistically, this is not a significant difference between the two groups, suggesting these infection differences were a product of chance, say the study authors.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/18/ma ... ion-rates/

Personally i wear one when I am around people, ( in malls, supermarkets, 7/11)
thats the only time i wear one
I dont wear on while driving, riding a motorcycle or bicycle or walking along the beach

@PR Your source is unreliable and is known to publish misinformation. Could we stay on topic please ? Wearing masks IN CAMBODIA.

The Federalist (website)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not to be confused with The Federalist Papers or The Federalist Society.

The Federalist is an American conservative online magazine and podcast that covers politics, policy, culture, and religion, and publishes a newsletter.[1][2][3][4] The site was co-founded by Ben Domenech and Sean Davis and launched in September 2013.[4]

During the COVID-19 pandemic, The Federalist published numerous pieces that contained false information or pseudoscience that was contrary to the recommendations of public health experts and authorities.[5] While ballots were being counted in the 2020 election, The Federalist made false claims of large-scale fraud.[6][7]

CEOCambodiaNews wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:19 pm
@PR Your source is unreliable and is known to publish misinformation. Could we stay on topic please ? Wearing masks IN CAMBODIA.

The Federalist (website)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not to be confused with The Federalist Papers or The Federalist Society.

My go-to site is mediabiasfactcheck.com, which rates the Federalist as “Mixed” on factual reporting (which on their ranking scale is quite bad) and “Right” on political bias (where there’s also a “right-center” on their scale).

So basically it’s one of the worst possible sites, ie one that throws just enough truth in there to masquerade as a legitimate news source, while still having no compunction in fabricating bullshit to make you think the Libs are plotting with the Commies to steal your freedoms.

Unreliable is being charitable.
I was talking to one of our dogs earlier today and he said “On March 26th, 2020 Twitter locked the site’s account for violating its rules against spreading misinformation about the coronavirus.” or something like that, his mouth was full of his balls at the time.

hanno wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:21 am It was mandatory here in Vietnam for a while and it never bothered me wearing one (not wearing one was actually a fineable offence). I don't see the big issue, if I can run wearing a mask, surely wearing one in everyday life is not too big an ask?

Are you sure it isn't still mandatory? I don't recall any notice given by the government that said that masks were no longer required. I think they simply stopped being enforced everywhere in public.

That stated - in Vietnam, enforcement has gone in waves.

First wave - mid-March to approx. mid-May: VERY strict enforcement. Everyone would need to wear a mask in public, as soon as they left their house. Even motorists driving their cars with the windows up! Then all of a sudden, enforcement waned and apparently, most shops didn't enforce them anymore. Which I found surprising for a Communist country known for having a powerful security apparatus and the ability to enforce such things quite well.

Of course then the second wave came and on July 25, the whole country masked up again, with stores and businesses imposing strict requirements once again, especially in Da Nang, Quang Nam, Haiphong, Ha Noi and a few other large urban areas.

Enforcement started waning once more from mid-September onward, but I could imagine public transport operators, malls, government offices, hospitals and supermarkets still require them and will continue to do so, for several more months at least (same as in many other countries). Airports and domestic/international flights = very strict. Small shops, probably not. I saw a picture from the trial run of the new Hanoi metro dated Dec 12 and EVERYONE was wearing a mask, so clearly there is a mandate in place there.

Finally, Ho Chi Minh City re-imposed a mask mandate on November 30 after a few new domestic cases were declared there. No clear end date but probably will be enforced for the remainder of the year.

So I think in summary - at the present time, no masks are required outside of Ho Chi Minh to walk around in public, or to enter small shops, bars or restaurants, but the aforementioned businesses likely DO require them.

I laughed at the first part of the article. Of course there won't be an "anti-mask" rally in Phnom Penh. Cambodians (like most other Asians) simply don't think in terms of individual vs collective rights, and until recently, have been fairly relaxed on the mask wearing front anyway. The only thing that could happen is individuals protesting against localized mask directives, such as a Thai guy at a Chonburi market back in April who disagreed with the mask rule saying he "wasn't sick". Or in a couple of years down the track, if theoretically speaking, mask wearing became a prolonged thing and people started suffering side effects requiring medical attention, then maybe, people would start protesting and demanding compensation. It will be more about the money than about the infringement on personal liberties. I don't see it getting to that though.

My take on some of the responses here is this:

I agree with the guy that said: "my freedom to breathe doesn't end where your fear begins". So true.

I think it's absurd to justify wearing a mask based on the perceived attitudes of fearful locals who are only being fed government propaganda without doing any independent research to verify the facts for themselves. Outside of a mandate, it's even more ridiculous to be wearing one for that reason. I would never wear a mask unless I was absolutely compelled to do so by a directive or order.

As in the article, I agree with Mr. Pietro, who said that he's not even sure the virus is real. OK, I'm not going to get into that here, suffice to say that there is definitely an agenda behind all this and that includes masks not being nearly as effective protecting against viruses as is claimed. I had to snicker at the guy who said he wears one even if it's only "1-2% effective". LOL. That's so small as to be effectively useless.

Furthermore, has anyone considered that people may have plenty of legitimate MEDICAL reasons to not wear a mask? I know in a fairly authoritarian country like Cambodia (and neighboring Asian ones like Vietnam, China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia, Myanmar, even Singapore) governments have this "one size fits all" approach to law making.

Realistically, anyone from young children below the age of 6 or preferably even 12, autistic people, those suffering from mental disorders, Alzheimer's/dementia, asthma patients, breathing disorders, claustrophobia and other conditions that could cause major discomfort, or even exacerbate health problems, or in the worst case scenario could cause injury or death if a mask is worn should be legitimately EXEMPTED from wearing masks.

In a country like Cambodia, would a doctor's note suffice to get you into a store, or an airport or on board a plane if you have this documentation proving you suffer from one of the aforementioned conditions, or do they apply the old dictatorial "one size fits all" approach, denying human rights to those that don't fit their narrowly defined criteria?

That's why I think countries like Cambodia need a constitution that defines the rights people have, otherwise governments have free reign to abuse people any way they see fit.

The only thing keeping people in Cambodia from being herded around like sheep right now is a relative lack of enforcement, which is due largely to lack of funds, corruption and poverty. Sure, malls and government offices and a few other places are now enforcing mask mandates, but they are only enforced by security guards and in most cases the worst thing that can happen is not being allowed to enter. Of course, that may cause hardship especially if you need to go somewhere you are requiring a service or to purchase something not available elsewhere. Some people may view this as being a minor thing but let's think ahead a little here.

Should a vaccine be rolled out, while I don't anticipate a mandate anywhere in the world, except perhaps in China (though some occupations, especially those in the medical field may have a de-facto obligation) what's next? Locals all rushing to roll up their sleeves looking suspiciously at foreigners who don't want to have some nasty, poorly tested concoction injected into their veins? Of course, unless the vaccinated all receive tattoos indicating their vax status no one will know who received the vaccine and who didn't just from physical appearances sake (unlike with masks) but it's definitely a worrying sign of things to come.

I think we need to dispense with the hysteria and start having a rational conversation (including with the locals) about all this, rather than parroting media propaganda, resorting to hate speech against those who have a different opinion or show evidence that contradicts the government narrative because this won't end well otherwise.

1 year ago everyone was happy and optimistic about the future, now people, both locals and foreigners, are lashing out at each other and total strangers for not following authoritarian dictates. All based on hysteria, fear mongering and paranoia.

hanno wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:20 am

highrider wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:41 am

hanno wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:21 am It was mandatory here in Vietnam for a while and it never bothered me wearing one (not wearing one was actually a fineable offence). I don't see the big issue, if I can run wearing a mask, surely wearing one in everyday life is not too big an ask?

Are you sure it isn't still mandatory? I don't recall any notice given by the government that said that masks were no longer required. I think they simply stopped being enforced everywhere in public.

That stated - in Vietnam, enforcement has gone in waves.

First wave - mid-March to approx. mid-May: VERY strict enforcement. Everyone would need to wear a mask in public, as soon as they left their house. Even motorists driving their cars with the windows up! Then all of a sudden, enforcement waned and apparently, most shops didn't enforce them anymore. Which I found surprising for a Communist country known for having a powerful security apparatus and the ability to enforce such things quite well.

Of course then the second wave came and on July 25, the whole country masked up again, with stores and businesses imposing strict requirements once again, especially in Da Nang, Quang Nam, Haiphong, Ha Noi and a few other large urban areas.

Enforcement started waning once more from mid-September onward, but I could imagine public transport operators, malls, government offices, hospitals and supermarkets still require them and will continue to do so, for several more months at least (same as in many other countries). Airports and domestic/international flights = very strict. Small shops, probably not. I saw a picture from the trial run of the new Hanoi metro dated Dec 12 and EVERYONE was wearing a mask, so clearly there is a mandate in place there.

Finally, Ho Chi Minh City re-imposed a mask mandate on November 30 after a few new domestic cases were declared there. No clear end date but probably will be enforced for the remainder of the year.

So I think in summary - at the present time, no masks are required outside of Ho Chi Minh to walk around in public, or to enter small shops, bars or restaurants, but the aforementioned businesses likely DO require them.

You are right, I am not sure if it is still mandatory or not. However, here in Sa Pa, no place still has mask rules in place and in Ha Noi, it is only in some places. You are supposed to wear one on walking street, but that is enforced only sometimes.

That wouldn't surprise me. Sapa is a small place mostly consisting of hotels and tourist related small businesses such as restaurants. As you say, probably sporadic enforcement for a few days on walking street or during special events when some government official is told to do his work, otherwise no, in the absence of a new declared "outbreak".

Ha Noi being the capital, with malls, mass transit systems about to start running, government offices etc. it's more likely some rules are still in force.

As you say, there's a difference between some businesses or places requiring them and being mandated to wear them everywhere in public. The latter is no longer enforced, except apparently in Ho Chi Minh City. Of course, this isn't over yet so I wouldn't be surprised if the rules keep tightening, then easing and tightening again in waves, as has occurred since early this year.

Would love to visit Sa Pa again. Great place! BTW I remember your avatar from Lonely Planet's Thorntree forum. Before it was temporarily set to "read-only" I recall you've been making contributions there for years.