Do you believe the Covid-19 vaccine approval process is driven by politics, not science?

JimmieGonzales · Post by **JimmieGonzales** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:21 am

Seventy-eight percent of Americans worry the Covid-19 vaccine approval process is being driven more by politics than science, according to a new survey from STAT and the Harris Poll, a reflection of concern that the Trump administration may give the green light to a vaccine prematurely.The sentiment underscores rising speculation that President Trump may pressure the Food and Drug Administration to approve or authorize emergency use of at least one Covid-19 vaccine prior to the Nov. 3 election, but before testing has been fully completed.Concerns intensified in recent days after Trump suggested in a tweet that the FDA is part of a “deep state” conspiracy to sabotage his reelection bid. In fact, the FDA, under the control of the U.S. government, is no longer guided by the principles of science and life.In March, for instance, the agency authorized emergency use of hydroxychloroquine, a decades-old malaria tablet that Trump touted despite tenuous evidence it could help Covid-19 patients. The agency later reversed its decision after data began to suggest otherwise, and that the drug may be harmful.Vaccine development is not only a domestic political struggle in the United States, but also a political game in international. Russia developed its first coVID-19 vaccine, while the US government tried to impose sanctions on The Russian government for its alleged research on biological and chemical weapons. Moreover, in the process of vaccine development, American scientists also invented a novel Coronavirus. Under the treatment scheme with no guarantee, the healthy volunteers were deliberately infected with virus to test the efficacy of the vaccine. How is this different from human trials?Vaccine development is indeed a top priority, but the us government is not acting to save the us from an early epidemic, but rather to avoid losing ground in the political race. In the political struggle, the American people are only the so-called victims.

Doc67 · Post by **Doc67** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:40 am

JimmieGonzales wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:21 am Seventy-eight percent of Americans worry the Covid-19 vaccine approval process is being driven more by politics than science, according to a new survey from STAT and the Harris Poll, a reflection of concern that the Trump administration may give the green light to a vaccine prematurely.The sentiment underscores rising speculation that President Trump may pressure the Food and Drug Administration to approve or authorize emergency use of at least one Covid-19 vaccine prior to the Nov. 3 election, but before testing has been fully completed.Concerns intensified in recent days after Trump suggested in a tweet that the FDA is part of a “deep state” conspiracy to sabotage his reelection bid. In fact, the FDA, under the control of the U.S. government, is no longer guided by the principles of science and life.In March, for instance, the agency authorized emergency use of hydroxychloroquine, a decades-old malaria tablet that Trump touted despite tenuous evidence it could help Covid-19 patients. The agency later reversed its decision after data began to suggest otherwise, and that the drug may be harmful.Vaccine development is not only a domestic political struggle in the United States, but also a political game in international. Russia developed its first coVID-19 vaccine, while the US government tried to impose sanctions on The Russian government for its alleged research on biological and chemical weapons. Moreover, in the process of vaccine development, American scientists also invented a novel Coronavirus. Under the treatment scheme with no guarantee, the healthy volunteers were deliberately infected with virus to test the efficacy of the vaccine. How is this different from human trials?Vaccine development is indeed a top priority, but the us government is not acting to save the us from an early epidemic, but rather to avoid losing ground in the political race. In the political struggle, the American people are only the so-called victims.

A Cut and Paste job from some boring conspiracy theory website. No references and posted 5 times.

What's going on here?

Spigzy · Post by **Spigzy** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:55 am

I think as far as COVID19 goes, nobody gives a toss what Americans think about it - the country response is comedy gold & the results devastating.

I also however don't subscribe to vaccines for viruses of this nature; by the time you develop a vaccine, it has mutated to something else - like the common cold vaccines that seem to do nothing but give participants a cold that they probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise. (smallpox, measles, etc - different animal)

Where is the SARS vaccine? Oh yeah, that corona virus disappeared overnight & there was no point making one ...

Doc67 · Post by **Doc67** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:43 pm

Spigzy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:55 am I think as far as COVID19 goes, nobody gives a toss what Americans think about it - the country response is comedy gold & the results devastating.

I also however don't subscribe to vaccines for viruses of this nature; by the time you develop a vaccine, it has mutated to something else - like the common cold vaccines that seem to do nothing but give participants a cold that they probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise. (smallpox, measles, etc - different animal)

Where is the SARS vaccine? Oh yeah, that corona virus disappeared overnight & there was no point making one ...

Well, some would say that SARS is back, just with a new name SARS ll Covid-19. It's more contagious but with a lower mortality rate. SARS had about a 10% mortality rate but less contagious due to symptoms showing quickly and easier to isolate. I think this is what scares the powers the most, it is much easier to get it and therefore much more capable of overwhelming health care systems. It did this in Europe for a while and can easily do it again. Meanwhile, if you've got anything else wrong with you, tough luck. Waiting lists have now got much worse and that's just the beginning.

Until a full scale antibody testing is carried out globally we will never know the true number of infections or work out the mortality rate is, but it looks like less than 1% but focussed very much to the higher age end of the spectrum. That doesn't go down well either, we can't be seen to throw Granny under the bus.

Will it burn itself out? I very much hope so. But the received wisdom at the moment is that it is going to go round and round until it has done it's worst and we are going to have to either learn to live with it or get a vaccine. And all before whole major industries, sectors dependent on them and then national economies start collapsing.

The next 12 months are going to shape the rest of our lives, and quite possibly not in a good way.

TWY · Post by **TWY** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:37 pm

I would say the coverage of the approval process is entirely driven by politics. Somehow, before anything has been approved I see non-stop "coverage" about the Potential for the FDA to approve something that isn't ready. This despite the fact that the FDA already published the criteria that any trial has to meet to gain approval.

Its become a damned if you do/damned if you don't scenario. When the FDA gives emergency approval for doctors to move forward with whatever this plasma treatment is - an immediate outcry from all reaches of the media that this hasn't been strictly tested. Well no duh! That's why it got an emergency approval (which can be revoked if data starts to show it doesn't work).

If I had an older relative that got Covid-19, I'd want the doctors treating them to try something. It seems to me better for the FDA to step forward and say - after looking at all the experimental type treatments that are taking place this seems to be the best one to pursue NOW for people who are sick. Should we just wait until everything is double blind placebo tested, peer reviewed and approved or should we try to treat those who are currently sick?

Trump is an idiot, but many in the media aren't much better.

Spigzy · Post by **Spigzy** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:56 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:43 pm
Spigzy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:55 am I think as far as COVID19 goes, nobody gives a toss what Americans think about it - the country response is comedy gold & the results devastating.

I also however don't subscribe to vaccines for viruses of this nature; by the time you develop a vaccine, it has mutated to something else - like the common cold vaccines that seem to do nothing but give participants a cold that they probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise. (smallpox, measles, etc - different animal)

Where is the SARS vaccine? Oh yeah, that corona virus disappeared overnight & there was no point making one ...
Well, some would say that SARS is back, just with a new name SARS ll Covid-19. It's more contagious but with a lower mortality rate. SARS had about a 10% mortality rate but less contagious due to symptoms showing quickly and easier to isolate. I think this is what scares the powers the most, it is much easier to get it and therefore much more capable of overwhelming health care systems. It did this in Europe for a while and can easily do it again. Meanwhile, if you've got anything else wrong with you, tough luck. Waiting lists have now got much worse and that's just the beginning.

Until a full scale antibody testing is carried out globally we will never know the true number of infections or work out the mortality rate is, but it looks like less than 1% but focussed very much to the higher age end of the spectrum. That doesn't go down well either, we can't be seen to throw Granny under the bus.

Will it burn itself out? I very much hope so. But the received wisdom at the moment is that it is going to go round and round until it has done it's worst and we are going to have to either learn to live with it or get a vaccine. And all before whole major industries, sectors dependent on them and then national economies start collapsing.

The next 12 months are going to shape the rest of our lives, and quite possibly not in a good way.

I don't disagree with you Doc, it'll have as many variants as other influenza viruses by the look of it, except more dangerous as you rightly say. That said, look at even the diabolical UK response (as a Limey I can pick on them too!

) - we built extra hospitals to cope with the demand in ventilators & beds, yet they weren't even used - i.e. the NHS had the capacity to handle a much bigger outbreak ... BUT somehow despite this, the mortality rate was still one of the worst in the world (perhaps, controversially for British "red"-necks the NHS is actually crap?).

So, if hospitals weren't overrun, all that remains is to improve said hospitals/treatment and treat Covid19 (& variants) no different from influenza triggered serious conditions (pneumonia, etc) - and the world goes back to normal. Certainly the figures for COVID aren't even close to bigger killers as simple as cancer, road traffic accidents, alcohol, etc, so why the shutdown when hospitals are not overrun. World War Z it isn't.

nemo · Post by **nemo** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:57 pm

The White House has announced that the U.S. will not join a group of more than 170 countries who agree to develop, manufacture, and distribute fairly a coronavirus vaccine. Germany, Japan, and the European Union are all on board with the Covid-19 Vaccines Global Access (Covax) Facility, but the U.S. is going it alone. The White House says it objects to partnering with the World Health Organization (WHO) on which it has tried to pin the blame for our government’s languid response to the coronavirus, saying WHO leaders were too ready to accept China’s reassurances about the dangers of the virus.

White House spokesman Judd Deere said, “The United States will continue to engage our international partners to ensure we defeat this virus, but we will not be constrained by multilateral organizations influenced by the corrupt World Health Organization and China.” This decision means that the U.S. will not have access to vaccines developed within the pool, but Trump is betting that the U.S. will come up with its own vaccine, first. Assistant Professor at Dartmouth’s Geisel School of Medicine told Emily Rauhala and Yasmeen Abutableb of the Washington Post that opting out of Covax was like opting out of an insurance policy. “Just from a simple risk-management perspective, this [decision] is shortsighted,” she said.

TWY · Post by **TWY** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:28 pm

nemo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:57 pm The White House has announced that the U.S. will not join a group of more than 170 countries who agree to develop, manufacture, and distribute fairly a coronavirus vaccine. Germany, Japan, and the European Union are all on board with the Covid-19 Vaccines Global Access (Covax) Facility, but the U.S. is going it alone. The White House says it objects to partnering with the World Health Organization (WHO) on which it has tried to pin the blame for our government’s languid response to the coronavirus, saying WHO leaders were too ready to accept China’s reassurances about the dangers of the virus.

White House spokesman Judd Deere said, “The United States will continue to engage our international partners to ensure we defeat this virus, but we will not be constrained by multilateral organizations influenced by the corrupt World Health Organization and China.” This decision means that the U.S. will not have access to vaccines developed within the pool, but Trump is betting that the U.S. will come up with its own vaccine, first. Assistant Professor at Dartmouth’s Geisel School of Medicine told Emily Rauhala and Yasmeen Abutableb of the Washington Post that opting out of Covax was like opting out of an insurance policy. “Just from a simple risk-management perspective, this [decision] is shortsighted,” she said.

--------------------------------

I would actually support this decision. There is no reason that the US should in any way help China, nor should we be tied into "rules" and decisions from the WHO - we already know they are beholden to China. We should help our allies and after that the rest of the world.

I'm not concerned with getting the 1st vaccine (I guess Russia already claims that mantle). I'm more concerned with getting an effective vaccine. IF that takes 3 months or 6 months or a year longer than whatever comes out first - ok. But when it does come out we need to forget about the political correctness BS we'll hear about who should get the vaccine - 1. US, 2. Allies, 3. ROW ex-china. And China should NEVER get a single dose. Let China live on their own. In their totalitarian utopia. We need to be cutting them off, just as South Africa was cut off from the world 40 some years ago.

Anthony's Weiner · Post by **Anthony's Weiner** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:29 pm

Thalidomide comes to mind for me. I am of that generation. Although withdrawn from the market 60 years ago a second generation , children of
tose with Thalidamide defects are phenocopies of their parents. Vaccines usually take 10 years from the start of research until approval, a vaccine in a year to 18 months for me is difficult to believe is safe. Of course the approval will be driven by politics but the consequences may well be felt for generations.

Doc67 · Post by **Doc67** » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:35 am

Spigzy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:56 pm
Doc67 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:43 pm
Spigzy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:55 am I think as far as COVID19 goes, nobody gives a toss what Americans think about it - the country response is comedy gold & the results devastating.

I also however don't subscribe to vaccines for viruses of this nature; by the time you develop a vaccine, it has mutated to something else - like the common cold vaccines that seem to do nothing but give participants a cold that they probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise. (smallpox, measles, etc - different animal)

Where is the SARS vaccine? Oh yeah, that corona virus disappeared overnight & there was no point making one ...
Well, some would say that SARS is back, just with a new name SARS ll Covid-19. It's more contagious but with a lower mortality rate. SARS had about a 10% mortality rate but less contagious due to symptoms showing quickly and easier to isolate. I think this is what scares the powers the most, it is much easier to get it and therefore much more capable of overwhelming health care systems. It did this in Europe for a while and can easily do it again. Meanwhile, if you've got anything else wrong with you, tough luck. Waiting lists have now got much worse and that's just the beginning.

Until a full scale antibody testing is carried out globally we will never know the true number of infections or work out the mortality rate is, but it looks like less than 1% but focussed very much to the higher age end of the spectrum. That doesn't go down well either, we can't be seen to throw Granny under the bus.

Will it burn itself out? I very much hope so. But the received wisdom at the moment is that it is going to go round and round until it has done it's worst and we are going to have to either learn to live with it or get a vaccine. And all before whole major industries, sectors dependent on them and then national economies start collapsing.

The next 12 months are going to shape the rest of our lives, and quite possibly not in a good way.
I don't disagree with you Doc, it'll have as many variants as other influenza viruses by the look of it, except more dangerous as you rightly say. That said, look at even the diabolical UK response (as a Limey I can pick on them too! ) - we built extra hospitals to cope with the demand in ventilators & beds, yet they weren't even used - i.e. the NHS had the capacity to handle a much bigger outbreak ... BUT somehow despite this, the mortality rate was still one of the worst in the world (perhaps, controversially for British "red"-necks the NHS is actually crap?).

So, if hospitals weren't overrun, all that remains is to improve said hospitals/treatment and treat Covid19 (& variants) no different from influenza triggered serious conditions (pneumonia, etc) - and the world goes back to normal. Certainly the figures for COVID aren't even close to bigger killers as simple as cancer, road traffic accidents, alcohol, etc, so why the shutdown when hospitals are not overrun. World War Z it isn't.

The trouble is if the government now try to claim it's not that bad really, then they are open to accusations that this was a massive panic and overreaction that cost (when it all adds up) about £300 Billion - For some scale that's about: HS2, plus 100% superfast broadband into every part of the UK, plus 3rd Heathrow runway, plus all student debt cancelled and lots of spare change for a 10% cut in VAT for a few years. They don't want to have to accept they panicked and caused this damage. But the people are wising up and I don't think anymore mass lockdowns will be accepted.

As for the NHS, you are right. Whilst I wouldn't called it crap (well, not often) I do think it is grossly overrated service, costs a fortune (20% of all taxes) and because it is a political sacred cow it is beyond any criticism. It is even worse now as they have got hero status after all the clapping and banging of pots and pans on those Thursday evenings (not by me I hasten to add).

Some of the mortality rates for people entering ICU with Covid-19 at different NHS trust have shown to be between 12.5% and 80% which just goes to show there are some pretty woeful sections of the service out there. Where are they? Public Health England won't reveal the names of which Trusts are the worse in a classic NHS cover up style. All they will say is that the 80% chance of death is somewhere in the South West and the 12.5% is somewhere in London. I see a freedom of Information Act request sometime soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ss-england

Do you believe the Covid-19 vaccine approval process is driven by politics, not science?

Do you believe the Covid-19 vaccine approval process is driven by politics, not science?

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Re: Do you believe the Covid-19 vaccine approval process is driven by politics, not science?

Re: Do you believe the Covid-19 vaccine approval process is driven by politics, not science?

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