I think every place has its tragedies and hopeless situations. The human situation is largely tragic and most triumphs are short lived.

But those we pity often are better equipped to navigate their situations than we can perceive from the outside.

NO, Cambodia is NOT unique, but it is where I and others on this forum, chose to work assisting others less fortunate than ourselves.
And long may I continue to do so given the great need for assistance and compassion at the individual level.

Sure, it is impossible for me to assist all in need but I can assist some. And as far as I am able to I shall continue to do so.

It is the dripping tap of human compassion that fills the bucket for those in need.
And were it not for Covid -19 I would have been back in Cambodia doing just this several more times this year than the January multi disciplinary medical assistance team at Kg Speu province.

OML

Ot Mean Loi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:42 pm NO, Cambodia is NOT unique, but it is where I and others on this forum, chose to work assisting others less fortunate than ourselves.
And long may I continue to do so given the great need for assistance and compassion at the individual level.

Sure, it is impossible for me to assist all in need but I can assist some. And as far as I am able to I shall continue to do so.

It is the dripping tap of human compassion that fills the bucket for those in need.
And were it not for Covid -19 I would have been back in Cambodia doing just this several more times this year than the January multi disciplinary medical assistance team at Kg Speu province.

OML

I would have thought there would be many on the forum who would have assisted others less fortunate then themselves, at home and in Cambodia. There is also the reality check, and we all may see and perceive something different, what do you and other members see in this growing country (more so at this time of a world panademic)? Where have you seen the poor and needy, would that be people in the countryside or that of some handfuls of dissplaced unfortunates in the city's. Or what of the donations from people who have never ventured here, but only read about the hardships of Khmer people, with regards of many charity organizations.
There Explorer does not think giving monies is the best solution, but he seems to believe in incentives, regarding help for the less unfortunate. Where do you draw the line? How do you personally perceive that someone is in need? What if anything can you do or donate that will make a difference too the people or individual you wish, or are intending too help. What ever you do, are you sure it was the right thing also to do. Will it make the difference of donation(s) too that person, being that of a quick fix, or that of a longer period of a need to person or persons.
The other thing is for example, yourself "Ot Mean Loi" maybe working for a organisation (voluntarily or salary) it doesn't matter ether way, you are helping the people intended. Explorer on the other hand is looking at a personal level, the question therefore is what an indervidual can do? Would that person be able to make the difference too a needy person, and would he also be comitted too carry it on. The other aspects of this, are the "organisations" that do make the difference, because of what they are, and stand for, with the experience and capabilities to do what they set out to do.
One other direction to look, is the country now able to tend too it's own "yes of course if you are to give" the hand will always be out to receive.

Hello AndyKK

NO, I most definitely do not work for any "Organization". Although I have prior experience in Cambodia through my time in UNTAC and the UN Agency that I then worked for prior to secondment to UNTAC/ONTAC was actively involved in such matters and I was to work in the field in a number of countries on many varied direct assistance programmes. So, it may be fair to say that I am "attuned" to such matters as well as experienced in such matters.

As my previous posts allude, I have been actively involved in Cambodia in non-paid activities every year since UNTAC 1992 and mostly multiple, 3 to 5 times each year since 1992. This year I spent much of January as a volunteer with a large multi-medical disciplinary team providing pro bono medical, surgical, pharmaceutical, dental and obstetrics, ophthalmic surgery and gynaecological etc support to those in need in Kg Speu province. I have worked with many such teams from overseas over the years. Although my first involvements in Cambodia were in 1969 under less that touristic conditions and posted about on TOF.

I was due to return to Cambodia in April and June but in March all flights out of Australia ceased, due to Covid-19, and I am currently due a refund of AUD $1,800 from Thai Airways International (TG), which has gone in to court administered "Reorganization", for later trips this year. I shall be unlikely to see a refund of this money "any time soon", if ever.

As for many expats in Cambodia I come to Cambodia to meet with and enjoy Cambodia and Cambodians. Because of this I travel rather widely and frequently within and around Cambodia and in the course of this meet many Cambodians from all walks of life. Having broken spoken Khmer makes a huge difference and enables good interactions with many Khmers. And because of this I find that I am very rapidly made welcome in so many different locations and situations.

I have for some years now been supporting traditional potters in Cambodia and not just in Kg Chhnang. So, through these many interactions with, dare I say it, typical/real Cambodians, I find myself supporting the education and general well being of two Cambodian females and a boy in Kratie province + a high school potter family female in Kg Chhnang who aspires to become a doctor of medicine and return to her community, and a year 11 female student in Banteay Meanchey province who seeks to become a university qualified graduate/senior nurse and also return to work in her community. Then there is my ongoing involvement over many years with the prevention and restoration of sight in north-western Cambodia. And more recently a joint cooperation to put a very poor but very intelligent young female law graduate, who completed her law degree in French and Khmer, through an Executive Master of International Business Law through RULE - Royal University of Phnom Penh Faculty of Law and Economics, conducted by the Universities of Freiburg, Switzerland and the University of Montreal, Canada and the University of Brussels, in Belgium. All highly respected universities and which will, upon completion of all academic requirements, result in the conferring of a double masters degrees in law for Master of International Business law. So I practice what I preach and have personal skin and my own after tax money involved. There are also a couple of others too.

It is consistent and ongoing support that is essential to create permanent and meaningful change. Although a "one off" can also help but often does not.

I hope this addresses your questions?

OML

Ot Mean Loi, thank you for the reply it is very much appreciated, although I didn't mean it to come across to being a personal outlook on what you do, but I am happy for the return post from someone like yourself taking on the ongoing help, and that on a personal level, you being what we can say is a doer and not just a talker. It looks like you have made the difference in your interactions and good work.
Wishing you all the best, and hopefully you will return to carry on your skills, and that of meaningful good results.

Andykk

It is my opinion that Khmer are brilliant at the poverty approach and that it is taught in every tale they tell us and it is a staple ingredient in the culture to ask for something free or to get a handout from all foreign people. It is not only my opinion but also what I have observed and discussed with Khmer that there is very long tradition of taxing foreigners for their visits to this land. They have proverbs about it. This is not to deny the great needs of people here who still endure central Africa poverty levels with such abundance around them that it ironically earns Cambodia the very non official moniker, "the richest poor country in the world". I give money directly and do teachable moments if its someone I know, however, i have recently been finding the listening skills of those I find worthy are more than suspect. It s been my experience lately that Khmer could care less what any foreigner has to say and that their strong English speaking skills make them immune to any input at all. This, is a tremendous socionarcissitic mass affair and it drives one loony. My heart breaks and i will not give in to acceptance of less than polite behavior in a social setting with anyone including Khmer. In my opinion we who are invested here need to dig in and accept that often we are getting played and that certain behavior towards us is just not acceptable no matter what culture you are in. A general example would be when a younger person shows no respect at all engaging with an older foreign person or, worse yet, shouts at that older person. I dare a young Khmer to do that to a Khmer in his mid 50's. Good luck. This poverty or perceived poverty is a part of this same manipulation and as Cambodia gets more multi national companies here those employees will have to learn some standard behavior and maybe some common decency/general knowledge will permeate that way. Pardon me if this sounds offensive to some and as if I am hating. I am not, my heart is here and its been here since my first stay 2008 and into 2010 . I just will not give in or give up on these folks when I know they can be better. Certain things I am happy to yield on that are Khmer matters but when foreigners get dissed on en masse and that spooky trait of Khmer elitism rears its ugly head while simultaneously putting that Khmer hand out for a freebie its time to call b#lls%&t.

Hello bossho

My experience is quite contrary to yours as far as Khmer/Cambodian attitudes to assistance are concerned. But you are correct that in the high density tourist areas such attitudes do prevail, and many tourists are very gullible and wear their hearts on their sleeves etc. and, as such, help perpetuate such attitudes; and it is for these very reasons that you outline in your posting that any and all assistance provided by me is done so on a one-to-one basis and in areas where tourism is either very low, relatively speaking, or non existent.

And as a pre-Covid very frequent traveler to Cambodia for virtually 29 years now my assistance goes to those that I can and do meet frequently and can see for myself what is being achieved by that assistance to the individual concerned. My approach is one of direct assistance, where as that of my wife is to send off a cheque every six months to a large international organization to assist a person named "Joseph" who does not seem to have aged one bit or improved his lot in life for the circa 25 years that she has been sending off such cheques. I have no time for such organizations having seen many of them first hand in a number of countries. And I totally despise those large international organizations that make assistance conditional upon being a "Rice Bowl Christian". Nonetheless, domestic harmony is better served by not pointing out such matters. Each unto their own but far too many organizations have poverty and children as their stock in trade in my view. However, the most effective and certainly most focused and cost effective organizations are a number of Cambodian Organizations and registered NGOs where you have Cambodians delivering very practical assistance to Cambodians.

All of those i have assisted over many years have,but with two exceptions, been very much of the attitude "please help me to help myself improve my life through education". I have no time or place for those with a rip-off or Cargo Cult mentality and I am very pleased to say that in all honesty I very rarely encounter that sort of mentality or attitude when working with the rural poor or indigent. It is important to assist in removing the causes of poverty and ignorance not merely treating the symptoms.

The cost of such assistance is, in most cases, not all that much relative to a fairly ordinary Australian income. For example, six months of Sunday Computer School with a morning session and an afternoon session for the two girls in Kratie province costs US$47 per girl. Money very well spent indeed and they both are now very computer literate and have essential life work skills already. Ditto for their English classes at US$9 per month. The young boy's private pre-schooling is somewhat more expensive at US$24 per month but he will now enter the state schooling system at age 6 well prepared when it reopens. And to put this in to some sort of perspective, a packet of 25 cigarettes in Australia costs over AUD$30 and often considerably more than this. I should add that having given up smoking on 3rd January 1970 in the closing days of my tour of duty in SVN, I find the cost of assisting a few of this up and coming next generation of Cambodians relatively insignificant. Assisting the double international masters of international business law candidate is a much harder call and for that reason two of us are sharing these costs.

Just my personal thoughts on these matters such as they may be.

OML

But you are correct that in the high density tourist areas such attitudes do prevail, and many tourists are very gullible and wear their hearts on their sleeves etc. and, as such, help perpetuate such attitudes; and it is for these very reasons that you outline in your posting that any and all assistance provided by me is done so on a one-to-one basis and in areas where tourism is either very low, relatively speaking, or non existent.

@bossho just curious but the above point made me wonder whether your opinion and experiences were formed living in a tourist area or otherwise?

bossho wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:25 pm It is my opinion that Khmer are brilliant at the poverty approach and that it is taught in every tale they tell us and it is a staple ingredient in the culture to ask for something free or to get a handout from all foreign people. It is not only my opinion but also what I have observed and discussed with Khmer that there is very long tradition of taxing foreigners for their visits to this land. They have proverbs about it. This is not to deny the great needs of people here who still endure central Africa poverty levels with such abundance around them that it ironically earns Cambodia the very non official moniker, "the richest poor country in the world". I give money directly and do teachable moments if its someone I know, however, i have recently been finding the listening skills of those I find worthy are more than suspect. It s been my experience lately that Khmer could care less what any foreigner has to say and that their strong English speaking skills make them immune to any input at all. This, is a tremendous socionarcissitic mass affair and it drives one loony. My heart breaks and i will not give in to acceptance of less than polite behavior in a social setting with anyone including Khmer. In my opinion we who are invested here need to dig in and accept that often we are getting played and that certain behavior towards us is just not acceptable no matter what culture you are in. A general example would be when a younger person shows no respect at all engaging with an older foreign person or, worse yet, shouts at that older person. I dare a young Khmer to do that to a Khmer in his mid 50's. Good luck. This poverty or perceived poverty is a part of this same manipulation and as Cambodia gets more multi national companies here those employees will have to learn some standard behavior and maybe some common decency/general knowledge will permeate that way. Pardon me if this sounds offensive to some and as if I am hating. I am not, my heart is here and its been here since my first stay 2008 and into 2010 . I just will not give in or give up on these folks when I know they can be better. Certain things I am happy to yield on that are Khmer matters but when foreigners get dissed on en masse and that spooky trait of Khmer elitism rears its ugly head while simultaneously putting that Khmer hand out for a freebie its time to call b#lls%&t.

Just wondered if you can speak the local Lingo. Being able to do so will not only change the information you receive, but also the way local perceive you.

Cambodian society is pretty hard to catch, the more you know, the less you understand. At least that applies to me. Add to that wide (cultural) gaps between the main centers and the rest of the country. The way you look at the Cambodian society will be determined by the place you live. A change of place, a real change of place, might change one's views.

bossho wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:25 pm It is not only my opinion but also what I have observed and discussed with Khmer that there is very long tradition of taxing foreigners for their visits to this land. They have proverbs about it.

As a person interested in Khmer language, do you remember some?

responding to the three above: My opinions have been formed in tourist areas and I agree that this bias is not objective, I have been around to 10 or 12 provinces by moto or bus but I have not spent a lot of time in any province here. I did teach Uni from 08-10 and that was a pretty good cross cut of people but things and attitudes have changed. I speak enough Khmer to do basic tasks and my Khmer listening is close to null. As far as the way the way locals perceive me I guess I am learning that one too, nice is considered weak here - that's tough for me to swallow. I know that my post is negative but please tell me that others out there can relate to the "taxation" they are randomly assigned just because they are foreigners and are here.I think with the economy the way it is I am seeing some awful examples of struggling everyday that is beyond anything I ve seen before.
Ot mean Loi ,I really find your dedication uplifting, I am glad you can do this work here and are strong about it after all those years. i do need to get out to the province more.