Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:32 am

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:08 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:24 pm
The first thing I would do (in the UK) is force Amazon to display prominently, on the front page of every product, the country flag of origin and then have a search function which excludes Chinese products. People should wake up to the extent of their lack of choices about where they are sending their money.

Maybe time for a petition? it would be interesting to see what the numbers look like.

I think the cupboard would look extremely bare, which is why Amazon will never do anything like this willingly.

Companies found a way around it decades ago. Source your parts from China, assemble locally and label it ‘made in <fill in local place>. Philips started doing this in the early eighties labeling ‘made in Belgium’.

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:08 am

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:22 am

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:32 am

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:08 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:24 pm
The first thing I would do (in the UK) is force Amazon to display prominently, on the front page of every product, the country flag of origin and then have a search function which excludes Chinese products. People should wake up to the extent of their lack of choices about where they are sending their money.

Maybe time for a petition? it would be interesting to see what the numbers look like.

I think the cupboard would look extremely bare, which is why Amazon will never do anything like this willingly.

Companies found a way around it decades ago. Source your parts from China, assemble locally and label it ‘made in <fill in local place>. Philips started doing this in the early eighties labeling ‘made in Belgium’.

Many smaller products are exported from China as the finished item. Start with them. If companies want to circumvent the rules by importing the components and assembling them in another country they can incur that additional expense if they wish. Or they can import from somewhere else. Besides, regulators can simply distinguish between country of origin of the component parts and the country of assembly. Washing machines might be viable but the vast majority of smaller items are not practical or economically viable to import unless they are the finished item.

I am not a mission or anything obsessive (well, that's other peoples call really), it is just that people ought to be able to find out this information quickly and easily and can then make an informed choice. I see relations deteriorating substantially between Beijing and the west and anti Chinese sentiment could grow very quickly if they become more bellicose and actually do start doing things, rather than just threatening to do things. At that point people can just stop buying their crappy products.

You're being unrealistic. 99.9% of all the products you buy contain multiple parts, some over a thousand, some even more. It's wishful thinking to expect companies to list the source of each and every component in a product. And to expect customers to check it all is even more unrealistic. Sometimes in the same production batch identical parts from different sources are used.

Any idea how many parts are used in for instance a LED TV from Samsung, made in South Korea? And do you really believe Samsung knows the exact source of each and every part used in your specific TV?

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:20 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:08 am

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:22 am

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:32 am

Freightdog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:08 pm

Maybe time for a petition? it would be interesting to see what the numbers look like.

I think the cupboard would look extremely bare, which is why Amazon will never do anything like this willingly.

Companies found a way around it decades ago. Source your parts from China, assemble locally and label it ‘made in <fill in local place>. Philips started doing this in the early eighties labeling ‘made in Belgium’.

Many smaller products are exported from China as the finished item. Start with them. If companies want to circumvent the rules by importing the components and assembling them in another country they can incur that additional expense if they wish. Or they can import from somewhere else. Besides, regulators can simply distinguish between country of origin of the component parts and the country of assembly. Washing machines might be viable but the vast majority of smaller items are not practical or economically viable to import unless they are the finished item.

I am not a mission or anything obsessive (well, that's other peoples call really), it is just that people ought to be able to find out this information quickly and easily and can then make an informed choice. I see relations deteriorating substantially between Beijing and the west and anti Chinese sentiment could grow very quickly if they become more bellicose and actually do start doing things, rather than just threatening to do things. At that point people can just stop buying their crappy products.

You're being unrealistic. 99.9% of all the products you buy contain multiple parts, some over a thousand, some even more. It's wishful thinking to expect companies to list the source of each and every component in a product. And to expect customers to check it all is even more unrealistic. Sometimes in the same production batch identical parts from different sources are used.

Any idea how many parts are used in for instance a LED TV from Samsung, made in South Korea? And do you really believe Samsung knows the exact source of each and every part used in your specific TV?

Almost 20 years back, I worked in a VW/AUDI dealer.

When a new car had a part fail under warranty; we would replace and do a warranty claim for the workshops parts and labour.

Part of this claim involved checking the manufacturer code upon each part and then going through a giant encyclopedia of VW/AUDI manufacturers codes so that the cost of the defective unit went right back to each specific manufacturing contractor, wherever they were.

So, yeah, they may not inform the public, but large multinational companies definitely know where each component comes from.

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:47 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:20 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:08 am

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:22 am

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:32 am

I think the cupboard would look extremely bare, which is why Amazon will never do anything like this willingly.

Companies found a way around it decades ago. Source your parts from China, assemble locally and label it ‘made in <fill in local place>. Philips started doing this in the early eighties labeling ‘made in Belgium’.

Many smaller products are exported from China as the finished item. Start with them. If companies want to circumvent the rules by importing the components and assembling them in another country they can incur that additional expense if they wish. Or they can import from somewhere else. Besides, regulators can simply distinguish between country of origin of the component parts and the country of assembly. Washing machines might be viable but the vast majority of smaller items are not practical or economically viable to import unless they are the finished item.

I am not a mission or anything obsessive (well, that's other peoples call really), it is just that people ought to be able to find out this information quickly and easily and can then make an informed choice. I see relations deteriorating substantially between Beijing and the west and anti Chinese sentiment could grow very quickly if they become more bellicose and actually do start doing things, rather than just threatening to do things. At that point people can just stop buying their crappy products.

You're being unrealistic. 99.9% of all the products you buy contain multiple parts, some over a thousand, some even more. It's wishful thinking to expect companies to list the source of each and every component in a product. And to expect customers to check it all is even more unrealistic. Sometimes in the same production batch identical parts from different sources are used.

Any idea how many parts are used in for instance a LED TV from Samsung, made in South Korea? And do you really believe Samsung knows the exact source of each and every part used in your specific TV?

Almost 20 years back, I worked in a VW/AUDI dealer.

When a new car had a part fail under warranty; we would replace and do a warranty claim for the workshops parts and labour.

Part of this claim involved checking the manufacturer code upon each part and then going through a giant encyclopedia of VW/AUDI manufacturers codes so that the cost of the defective unit went right back to each specific manufacturing contractor, wherever they were.

So, yeah, they may not inform the public, but large multinational companies definitely know where each component comes from.

On a component level: yes. On a part level, no.

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:49 pm

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:47 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:20 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:08 am

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:22 am
Companies found a way around it decades ago. Source your parts from China, assemble locally and label it ‘made in <fill in local place>. Philips started doing this in the early eighties labeling ‘made in Belgium’.

Many smaller products are exported from China as the finished item. Start with them. If companies want to circumvent the rules by importing the components and assembling them in another country they can incur that additional expense if they wish. Or they can import from somewhere else. Besides, regulators can simply distinguish between country of origin of the component parts and the country of assembly. Washing machines might be viable but the vast majority of smaller items are not practical or economically viable to import unless they are the finished item.

I am not a mission or anything obsessive (well, that's other peoples call really), it is just that people ought to be able to find out this information quickly and easily and can then make an informed choice. I see relations deteriorating substantially between Beijing and the west and anti Chinese sentiment could grow very quickly if they become more bellicose and actually do start doing things, rather than just threatening to do things. At that point people can just stop buying their crappy products.

You're being unrealistic. 99.9% of all the products you buy contain multiple parts, some over a thousand, some even more. It's wishful thinking to expect companies to list the source of each and every component in a product. And to expect customers to check it all is even more unrealistic. Sometimes in the same production batch identical parts from different sources are used.

Any idea how many parts are used in for instance a LED TV from Samsung, made in South Korea? And do you really believe Samsung knows the exact source of each and every part used in your specific TV?

Almost 20 years back, I worked in a VW/AUDI dealer.

When a new car had a part fail under warranty; we would replace and do a warranty claim for the workshops parts and labour.

Part of this claim involved checking the manufacturer code upon each part and then going through a giant encyclopedia of VW/AUDI manufacturers codes so that the cost of the defective unit went right back to each specific manufacturing contractor, wherever they were.

So, yeah, they may not inform the public, but large multinational companies definitely know where each component comes from.

On a component level: yes. On a part level, no.

component
/kəmˈpəʊnənt/

noun
a part or element of a larger whole, especially a part of a machine or vehicle.
"an assembly plant for imported components"

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:52 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:49 pm

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:47 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:20 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:08 am

Many smaller products are exported from China as the finished item. Start with them. If companies want to circumvent the rules by importing the components and assembling them in another country they can incur that additional expense if they wish. Or they can import from somewhere else. Besides, regulators can simply distinguish between country of origin of the component parts and the country of assembly. Washing machines might be viable but the vast majority of smaller items are not practical or economically viable to import unless they are the finished item.

I am not a mission or anything obsessive (well, that's other peoples call really), it is just that people ought to be able to find out this information quickly and easily and can then make an informed choice. I see relations deteriorating substantially between Beijing and the west and anti Chinese sentiment could grow very quickly if they become more bellicose and actually do start doing things, rather than just threatening to do things. At that point people can just stop buying their crappy products.

You're being unrealistic. 99.9% of all the products you buy contain multiple parts, some over a thousand, some even more. It's wishful thinking to expect companies to list the source of each and every component in a product. And to expect customers to check it all is even more unrealistic. Sometimes in the same production batch identical parts from different sources are used.

Any idea how many parts are used in for instance a LED TV from Samsung, made in South Korea? And do you really believe Samsung knows the exact source of each and every part used in your specific TV?

Almost 20 years back, I worked in a VW/AUDI dealer.

When a new car had a part fail under warranty; we would replace and do a warranty claim for the workshops parts and labour.

Part of this claim involved checking the manufacturer code upon each part and then going through a giant encyclopedia of VW/AUDI manufacturers codes so that the cost of the defective unit went right back to each specific manufacturing contractor, wherever they were.

So, yeah, they may not inform the public, but large multinational companies definitely know where each component comes from.

On a component level: yes. On a part level, no.

component
/kəmˈpəʊnənt/

noun
a part or element of a larger whole, especially a part of a machine or vehicle.
"an assembly plant for imported components"

I'm in the speaker spare parts business. When I buy a speaker component / part, for instance a tweeter, I know the source. I know the code. I can claim if faulty. I know where it's produced. Maybe I even visited the factory.

But the tweeter (component) is constructed using multiple different parts and resources. Do I know their source. No way. Do know which glue is used to attach the voice coil to the dome? No. Do I know which wire is used for the voice coil? No.

You can only trace where your product comes from up to a certain level. To declare product 'China free' or 'any country free' is an illusion. Also for VW / Audi.

Yeah, fair enough.

That said, most large companies are beginning to use blockchain technology (not to be conflated with crypto currency) to have a more transparent and easier way to chase origin of various parts and components. While it can never be 100%, they could get quite close.

The Chinese strategy is simple. Sinification = transforming non-Chinese into Chinese.

The first Chinese Emperor did it. Took all the disparate peoples, languages, and cultures. Codified the Chinese culture (his culture, language, writing, etc.) and imposed it on all of them.

In a way that united them as a single people.

The process has been refined over thousands of years. Then the aberration (in their eyes) of the last century or so of western domination.

The process now continues.

The world will either be communist Chinese in the end or there will a cultural war to prevent that from happening.

There is a book called ‘Romance of the Three Kingdoms’.

There is a king who wants to conquer a neighboring kingdom. The problem is that there is the enemy General who much better than his men.

The solution? He trains his daughter to seduce him, then marry him, then kill him on his marriage bed on wedding night when he’s exhausted.

This is how Chinese think. Doesn’t matter how long it takes, how many lives sacrificed, how many moral and ethical boundaries crossed. It’s all about the final outcome.