Plane circling PP

Felgerkarb · Post by **Felgerkarb** » Mon May 25, 2020 9:24 am

Kammekor wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 9:20 am
Felgerkarb wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 8:54 am I hope just testing. But if not, dumping fuel and circling an airport down to fumes in the fuel tanks before crash landing is standard procedure.

Maybe nothing, but if a landing gear problem, flying low past the tower for visual confirmation would also be procedure. It would look like an attempted landing on the app.
For this there's a holding point north of Phnom Penh, you don't dump fuel at low altitudes over a capital. This plane wasn't in trouble, if in trouble you don't do the same pattern 10 times. Just training I think.

Ya, I know, but circling for visual inspection of the aircraft after fuel dump in some circumstances is the procedure. That said, it has been years since I worked with this type stuff and maybe things have changed a lot.

Glad it is just training.

Phnom Poon · Post by **Phnom Poon** » Mon May 25, 2020 11:49 am

IraHayes wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 9:12 am Whilst on Flightradar24 I noticed a helicopter pilot appearing to make a statement over the southern side of PP.

lol
isn't that somewhere around the big man's compound?

Brody · Post by **Brody** » Mon May 25, 2020 12:23 pm

Just an academic point.............but the A320 family of aircraft do not have fuel dump capabilities.

Post by **Freightdog** » Mon May 25, 2020 1:21 pm

IraHayes wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 9:12 am Whilst on Flightradar24 I noticed a helicopter pilot appearing to make a statement over the southern side of PP.

Drawing a Big Dick in the air?
Confession. There’s a radar trace of myself and colleague having done that. Purely by chance, though. We were told afterwards.

A few thoughts on points raised.

Fuel Dump.
As @Brodie points out, not on the A320 family, to the best of my knowledge. Nor the B737 which I fly. There’s no system fitted, and as long as the runway is long enough, having taken off at maximum weight, In most circumstances you’d be able to land safely if needed. The engineers would just have a lot of paperwork to do.
A320 empty aircraft (apparently) 37Tonnes, max Takeoff mass about 75T, max landing 64T
B737 has similar figures.

If you’ve too much fuel, and you need to get rid of it, or there’s no urgency to land, you just burn it off. It would be a fairly rare event that you’d need to burn down 13Tonnes of juice. That’s many hours of flying!

Technical problem.
A possibility, initially. But if it landed and took off again, I’d guess not this time.

Technical reason.
A possibility, too. Especially if there were several approaches made. Testing on behalf the airport, or testing on behalf of the maintenance department? The radar pattern doesn’t show a normal holding pattern for Phnom Penh. Normally North east or South West of the field.

Training.
Good chance. But expensive if unneeded. But who knows...

As for all those aircraft sitting around as ATST asked, and being safe to fly when all the Covid drama is over. The aircraft are still subject to fairly rigourous checks. There’ll probably be additional stuff due to the mothballing (but I’m not an aircraft engineer) which so far has actually only been fairly short term, in the grand scheme of things.

Planes with technical issues crashing near the city. Sadly, Pakistan Airlines have just proven that this can happen. However, it’s unlikely in normal or even abnormal circumstances.

IraHayes · Post by **IraHayes** » Mon May 25, 2020 2:21 pm

Freightdog wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 1:21 pm
IraHayes wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 9:12 am Whilst on Flightradar24 I noticed a helicopter pilot appearing to make a statement over the southern side of PP.

Drawing a Big Dick in the air?
Confession. There’s a radar trace of myself and colleague having done that. Purely by chance, though. We were told afterwards.

A few thoughts on points raised.

Fuel Dump.
As @Brodie points out, not on the A320 family, to the best of my knowledge. Nor the B737 which I fly. There’s no system fitted, and as long as the runway is long enough, having taken off at maximum weight, In most circumstances you’d be able to land safely if needed. The engineers would just have a lot of paperwork to do.
A320 empty aircraft (apparently) 37Tonnes, max Takeoff mass about 75T, max landing 64T
B737 has similar figures.

If you’ve too much fuel, and you need to get rid of it, or there’s no urgency to land, you just burn it off. It would be a fairly rare event that you’d need to burn down 13Tonnes of juice. That’s many hours of flying!

Technical problem.
A possibility, initially. But if it landed and took off again, I’d guess not this time.

Technical reason.
A possibility, too. Especially if there were several approaches made. Testing on behalf the airport, or testing on behalf of the maintenance department? The radar pattern doesn’t show a normal holding pattern for Phnom Penh. Normally North east or South West of the field.

Training.
Good chance. But expensive if unneeded. But who knows...

As for all those aircraft sitting around as ATST asked, and being safe to fly when all the Covid drama is over. The aircraft are still subject to fairly rigourous checks. There’ll probably be additional stuff due to the mothballing (but I’m not an aircraft engineer) which so far has actually only been fairly short term, in the grand scheme of things.

Planes with technical issues crashing near the city. Sadly, Pakistan Airlines have just proven that this can happen. However, it’s unlikely in normal or even abnormal circumstances.

All points covered and so given the “good chance” it was for training they were at it for quite some time.
They must have made dozens of touch and go landings...
Training for what? Would be my next question.

Doc67 · Post by **Doc67** » Mon May 25, 2020 2:47 pm

IraHayes wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 2:21 pm
Freightdog wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 1:21 pm
IraHayes wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 9:12 am Whilst on Flightradar24 I noticed a helicopter pilot appearing to make a statement over the southern side of PP.

Drawing a Big Dick in the air?
Confession. There’s a radar trace of myself and colleague having done that. Purely by chance, though. We were told afterwards.

A few thoughts on points raised.

Fuel Dump.
As @Brodie points out, not on the A320 family, to the best of my knowledge. Nor the B737 which I fly. There’s no system fitted, and as long as the runway is long enough, having taken off at maximum weight, In most circumstances you’d be able to land safely if needed. The engineers would just have a lot of paperwork to do.
A320 empty aircraft (apparently) 37Tonnes, max Takeoff mass about 75T, max landing 64T
B737 has similar figures.

If you’ve too much fuel, and you need to get rid of it, or there’s no urgency to land, you just burn it off. It would be a fairly rare event that you’d need to burn down 13Tonnes of juice. That’s many hours of flying!

Technical problem.
A possibility, initially. But if it landed and took off again, I’d guess not this time.

Technical reason.
A possibility, too. Especially if there were several approaches made. Testing on behalf the airport, or testing on behalf of the maintenance department? The radar pattern doesn’t show a normal holding pattern for Phnom Penh. Normally North east or South West of the field.

Training.
Good chance. But expensive if unneeded. But who knows...

As for all those aircraft sitting around as ATST asked, and being safe to fly when all the Covid drama is over. The aircraft are still subject to fairly rigourous checks. There’ll probably be additional stuff due to the mothballing (but I’m not an aircraft engineer) which so far has actually only been fairly short term, in the grand scheme of things.

Planes with technical issues crashing near the city. Sadly, Pakistan Airlines have just proven that this can happen. However, it’s unlikely in normal or even abnormal circumstances.
All points covered and so given the “good chance” it was for training they were at it for quite some time.
They must have made dozens of touch and go landings...
Training for what? Would be my next question.

Landings, for new pilots maybe?

They can train in a simulator which is cheaper per hour and doesn't write of a multi million dollar asset if it goes wrong, but sooner or late new pilots have to land the real thing to show that they don't freeze up and panic when faced with the reality.

There could be a few of them on board all taking turns to have several landings each, with a training captain in the left seat to make sure things don't go too wrong.

While the airports and the skies around them are empty and the planes are doing nothing, now is a perfect chance to get these training flights in. Whether there will be any jobs for the poor indebted souls to apply for is another matter.

I saw a documentary about easyjet and their pilot training and this is how they did it.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ea ... M%3DVDRESM

Post by **Freightdog** » Mon May 25, 2020 2:58 pm

Ira Hayes wrote: Training for what? Would be my next question.

It could be circuits, if there were actual landings with each one. When I’ve had to do this in years gone by, it was often 3-4 newly qualified pilots, 4-6 circuits each, with an instructor and sometimes an additional safety pilot. Usually done as part of the certification process for a new type rating. Compared to normal flying ops, it’s a bit different. Which is why it’s actually better to be done in the sim, but more fun to be done in the aircraft.

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Mon May 25, 2020 3:24 pm

Freightdog wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 2:58 pm
Ira Hayes wrote: Training for what? Would be my next question.
It could be circuits, if there were actual landings with each one. When I’ve had to do this in years gone by, it was often 3-4 newly qualified pilots, 4-6 circuits each, with an instructor and sometimes an additional safety pilot. Usually done as part of the certification process for a new type rating. Compared to normal flying ops, it’s a bit different. Which is why it’s actually better to be done in the sim, but more fun to be done in the aircraft.

I guess now is the time to do this. I'm sure they can make a special deal with Pochentong airport and the aircraft is readily available. No interfering traffic. Pochentong happy to sell some kerosene.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Tue May 26, 2020 7:43 am

One problem with using simulators for training is that there probably isn't one in Cambodia, and if the nearest ones aren't sited inside an airport then you're losing your pilots to quarantine

armchairlawyer · Post by **armchairlawyer** » Tue May 26, 2020 7:13 pm

Let's just be thankful that PIA don't fly into PNH.
It looks like the pilots of the recently crashed plane in Karachi came in very hot and high and made matters worse by forgetting to lower the landing gear. The damage to the engines then prevented them from completing a circuit when they went around and they crashed into houses. They could have still been OK if they had done a teardrop as opposed to a full circuit. As one professional pprune poster succinctly summed up the lessons to be learned:
That is one thing to take away. If you bounce the donks on the ground, they might be good for a minute or two but not for a full pattern. Dont think, that this was tested before.
PIA will be back on the European black list quick, if this investigation becomes botched. There is a lot of evidence and some survivors out there, so it will be difficult to make up stuff and get away with it.

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/632 ... hi-33.html

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