Victory in Europe Day - 75th Anniversary.

WildA · Post by **WildA** » Mon May 11, 2020 10:03 am

So is supercilious asshole. One of my favs.

newkidontheblock · Post by **newkidontheblock** » Mon May 11, 2020 10:31 am

Back on topic. Victory over Nazi Germany would not have been possible in 1945 without the US becoming the arsenal of democracy. The US sent so much military equipment, supplies, logistics, etc., to Britain and the Soviet Union. So much that the U-boats couldn’t sink them all. So much so that Allied aircraft took control of the skies in Europe. Britain bribed the US into joining the Allied side with resounding success.

All sides lost millions of soldiers and civilians during the war. But Britain could have never won in North Africa, and subsequently invaded Italy and Europe without the US. The Soviets could never have advanced so quickly without thousands of Ford Model A trucks carrying fuel for the tanks. And then millions more would die if the war dragged on for another 5 years or so. Germany went to full military production in 1943. The armies of 1943-1944 were not a Soviet pushover.

Near the end of the war, the Nazis were on the verge of mass production of surface to air missiles, jet fighters, and long range uboats, as well as a possible nuclear bomb. Only by continuously bombing the factories, fuel conversion centers, ball bearing plants, etc., was this prevented.

WildA · Post by **WildA** » Mon May 11, 2020 10:50 am

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:31 am Back on topic. Victory over Nazi Germany would not have been possible in 1945 without the US becoming the arsenal of democracy. The US sent so much military equipment, supplies, logistics, etc., to Britain and the Soviet Union. So much that the U-boats couldn’t sink them all. So much so that Allied aircraft took control of the skies in Europe. Britain bribed the US into joining the Allied side with resounding success.

All sides lost millions of soldiers and civilians during the war. But Britain could have never won in North Africa, and subsequently invaded Italy and Europe without the US. The Soviets could never have advanced so quickly without thousands of Ford Model A trucks carrying fuel for the tanks. And then millions more would die if the war dragged on for another 5 years or so. Germany went to full military production in 1943. The armies of 1943-1944 were not a Soviet pushover.

Near the end of the war, the Nazis were on the verge of mass production of surface to air missiles, jet fighters, and long range uboats, as well as a possible nuclear bomb. Only by continuously bombing the factories, fuel conversion centers, ball bearing plants, etc., was this prevented.

Patton was at the German border before Monty even figured out a game plan (hyperbolic, but you get the point). I love our little cousins, but WE won the war. The Russkies did their part, but only because WE supplied them.

Heres to Peace

fazur · Post by **fazur** » Mon May 11, 2020 11:21 am

ignorance
/ˈɪɡn(ə)r(ə)ns/
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noun
lack of knowledge or information.
"he acted in ignorance of basic procedures"

brainwash
/ˈbreɪnwɒʃ/
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verb
pressurize (someone) into adopting radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible means.
"people are brainwashed into believing family life is the best"

prejudice
/ˈprɛdʒʊdɪs/
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noun
1.
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
"English prejudice against foreigners"

arrogance
/ˈarəɡ(ə)ns/
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noun
the quality of being arrogant.
"the arrogance of this man is astounding"

hanno · Post by **hanno** » Mon May 11, 2020 11:31 am

WildA wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:50 amThe Russkies did their part, but only because WE supplied them.

And because they were willing to sacrifice millions (8 million soldiers and 18 million civilians); losses that would have been unacceptable to anyone else.

WildA · Post by **WildA** » Mon May 11, 2020 11:59 am

hanno wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:31 am
WildA wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:50 amThe Russkies did their part, but only because WE supplied them.
And because they were willing to sacrifice millions (8 million soldiers and 18 million civilians); losses that would have been unacceptable to anyone else.

Life is meaningless to the Communists.

The fact that the Fascisti went to war with horses while the Allies were mechanized had a lot to do with it too, but thats what happens when you have a 2 bit trench strategist running things.

Kuroneko · Post by **Kuroneko** » Mon May 11, 2020 12:44 pm

hanno wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:31 am
WildA wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:50 amThe Russkies did their part, but only because WE supplied them.
And because they were willing to sacrifice millions (8 million soldiers and 18 million civilians); losses that would have been unacceptable to anyone else.

"but only because WE supplied them" you're kidding right! I wonder where he got that idea!

When the Soviet Union was invaded during Operation Barbarossa in June 1941, the Russian forces suffered heavy losses in men, material and tanks. Great Britain now no longer stood alone and found an Ally in Russia, so a move was made to supply the Soviet Union with Tanks not just as a symbol of their Alliance but for the practical reason that they were needed.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-b ... r-ii-13889

The majority of the tanks that were sent to Russia in 1941 and 1942 were Matilda II and Valentine tanks. The Matilda had seen action in France in 1940 and then in the Western Desert. It’s thick armour stood by well against many German tank guns, but not against the 88mm. The Valentine was a smaller tank, but with good armour and more than 2600 were sent to Russia from Britain and also Canada.https://www.world-at-war.co.uk/?p=69

By mid-1941, the USSR had more than 22,000 tanks—more tanks than all the armies of the world combined, and four times the number of tanks in the German arsenal. By the end of the war, the Soviet Union had produced nearly 60,000 T-34 tanks—proving the point that quantity does have a quality all of its own.

rexwell · Post by **rexwell** » Wed May 13, 2020 12:55 pm

BR549 wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:41 am Len Deighton wrote a great book called SS-GB..published in 1978 when I was 19..It was superb.

I'm a bit lazy to read these days, but I just downloaded the audio book. Great story so far.

DaveG · Post by **DaveG** » Mon May 18, 2020 3:40 am

And this is how the UK repaid them........
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/v ... l-22039617
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-52698087
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 19081.html

newkidontheblock · Post by **newkidontheblock** » Mon May 18, 2020 5:37 am

WildA wrote:Life is meaningless to the Communists.

The fact that the Fascisti went to war with horses while the Allies were mechanized had a lot to do with it too, but thats what happens when you have a 2 bit trench strategist running things.

Life was meaningless to Joseph Stalin. He even hid the real Soviet losses from his own people afraid the people would revolt knowing how he threw away lives.

Before the war, Germans had a lot fewer people driving cars than the US. This translated into a lot fewer auto companies. Fewer companies to make tanks and few who could drive tanks. Less reliable engines and designs to choose from. They had a fuel shortage, lots of coal, little petrol. Germany had diesel-electric trains. All trains were changed to steam locomotive to save fuel. Even war production did not reach 100% until 1943. And yet they came close to winning.

They had an excellent military. Troops would be given objectives and create missions to achieve them. This flexible strategy overcome many obstacles. They also had radios in every tank. Finally there was an esprit de corps of every unit. Units were formed as a group and stayed together. Even at the end, under constant air attack, food shortages, etc., they still fought on.

The US brought an incredible logistics supply and overwhelming air power. Every tank and infantry unit had radios. A higher percentage of artillery and air strikes requested than any other nation. Tanks were well built, reliable, easy to maintain.

There were 2 main ideas of how to win in Europe. The advance on all fronts idea. Championed by the Americans, led by Patton. Would reach Germany in a year. Another was a quick advance to capture Berlin and end the war in a few months. Championed by Montgomery. Led to Operation Market garden. A disaster. Airborne troops surprised the German defenders and captured the bridges but were surrounded and destroyed.

Sherman tanks were sent in large numbers to the Soviet Union as well. The Matilda and Valentine tanks were obsolete by that point and were shipped off to the Russians.

Victory in Europe Day - 75th Anniversary.

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