The Future of Travel

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Duncan
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by Duncan »

Ryan754326 wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 4:53 pm
SternAAlbifrons wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 1:50 pm
Ryan754326 wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 1:23 pm I feel like a quiet majority are starting to see through the panic. If you take the over 70 demographic out of the statistics,
"If you take the over 70 demographic out of the statistics"
You can't, Ryan.
But you have to dismiss them as being of little value if you are being completely honest in pursuing this argument.

"see through the panic"
Personally, call me old fashioned, i reckon a 70 yr old life is as worthy as a 20 yr old's.
And thank the Stars, that is exactly why my two home countries (Oz and NZ) will not let people fly right now. To absolutely ensure we will not have our parents and grandparents dropping like flies.

No "panic" - just a cool-headed decision to protect those we love, admire and give full human value to.
I don’t have to dismiss anything. My 84 year old grandmother’s life is very valuable to me, and I’m sure that if she were over 100, I would still consider her life to be every bit as valuable, but we have to accept that everyone will have to die from something eventually. A majority of the people who are dying from Covid19 have already exceeded the average life expectancy in their respective countries, and likely would have died from something else already, had they been living just 50 years ago.

The over 70 demographic are free to stay locked up inside forever if they choose to do so, but they shouldn’t forget that it’s the working-age people who pay the taxes that are necessary to keep their pensions coming in, and to pay for the socialized medical care that allows them to live longer and longer lives.
Your lucky those over 70 s built and paid for all those roads , bridges, buildings and other infrastructure so you could use them to get to your job to pay the taxes. Perhaps those youngsters that did not build and pay for them should compensate the over 70 s to use those infrastructures in the way of taxes to pay pensions .
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John Bingham
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by John Bingham »

I was going to say something similar. Surely most of those older people paid huge amounts of tax and social insurance for decades? My father gets taxed on his pension. :?
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by Cowshed Cowboy »

On the original post - RW Mann " On the corporate side, that's where the airlines make their money. They travel more frequently but at the moment they are risk averse"

That's a biggie that I agree with, in my experience whenever there is a business slump, " Travel and Entertainment" was one of the first overhead cost budgets to get the axe until things improve. No more corporate beanos for the marketing boys either.
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Yerg
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by Yerg »

John Bingham wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 6:46 pm I was going to say something similar. Surely most of those older people paid huge amounts of tax and social insurance for decades? My father gets taxed on his pension. :?
Took the words out of my mouth JB. My parents pay tax on something that they paid for over many years out of their net incomes. So we know that your father and my parents are still supporting whatever care they may need from their continuing tax payments... Rather than being a drain :whip: :lol:
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by xandreu »

Sitting on an airplane for several hours, one seat away from someone with covid-19 is not going to protect you in any way imaginable.

It's an enclosed pressurised space with recycled air. Simply removing or leaving the middle seat free wouldn't come anywhere close to adequate protection.

I certainly wouldn't want to give it a go.
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by Ryan754326 »

Duncan wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 6:35 pm
Your lucky those over 70 s built and paid for all those roads , bridges, buildings and other infrastructure so you could use them to get to your job to pay the taxes. Perhaps those youngsters that did not build and pay for them should compensate the over 70 s to use those infrastructures in the way of taxes to pay pensions .
So how do we compensate? My point was that if we can’t work, we can’t pay taxes, and the social safety nets quickly begin to fall apart from there.
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by Ryan754326 »

Yerg wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 9:45 pm
Took the words out of my mouth JB. My parents pay tax on something that they paid for over many years out of their net incomes. So we know that your father and my parents are still supporting whatever care they may need from their continuing tax payments... Rather than being a drain :whip: :lol:
I’m not trying to turn this into a young vs old argument, or suggesting that pensioners are a drain, but the fact is, that the money the older generation has paid into the system for decades is long gone; already used up to pay the previous generation their pensions, among other things. It’s not all sitting in a bank account somewhere.
Governments operate on a Ponzi scheme model. Without new money coming in the whole thing breaks down.
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SternAAlbifrons
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by SternAAlbifrons »

Ryan754326 wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 4:14 am
Duncan wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 6:35 pm
Your lucky those over 70 s built and paid for all those roads , bridges, buildings and other infrastructure so you could use them to get to your job to pay the taxes. Perhaps those youngsters that did not build and pay for them should compensate the over 70 s to use those infrastructures in the way of taxes to pay pensions .
So how do we compensate? My point was that if we can’t work, we can’t pay taxes, and the social safety nets quickly begin to fall apart from there.
With due respect, Ryan - that is a zero sum game you are stating.
you can in fact do both.
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by Ryan754326 »

SternAAlbifrons wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 5:13 am
With due respect, Ryan - that is a zero sum game you are stating.
you can in fact do both.
I don’t mean to imply that no one can work at the moment, but even 10% unemployment is going to be a very noticeable hit, if it carries on for any length of time.

Most of the people I know in Canada share the opinion that every life is precious, and that all we can do is sit inside and wait for the inevitable vaccine to come, economy be damned. I don’t think they appreciate the damage that might be done if we continue to keep things closed for 3 to 6 months, or longer.
Going back to my original post, what we are dealing with is a virus that is killing a very small percentage of people who are mostly old and sick already. The question I have been asking since early on, is why can’t we isolate those people and let the rest start getting back to normal? The most common answer I am getting from my older friends and relatives is that it wouldn’t be fair, and it’s better to just keep everyone home until the virus disappears. I don’t believe that this is feasible, and I think it’s likely that the economy will be badly damaged if we keep trying.
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Re: The Future of Travel

Post by Doc67 »

xandreu wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:04 pm Sitting on an airplane for several hours, one seat away from someone with covid-19 is not going to protect you in any way imaginable.

It's an enclosed pressurised space with recycled air. Simply removing or leaving the middle seat free wouldn't come anywhere close to adequate protection.

I certainly wouldn't want to give it a go.
I understood it is a mixture of fresh air and recycled air, 80/20% ratio which can be switched to 100% fresh air if desired?

Maybe @Freightdog can chime in on this with some technical info?
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