NZ, Australia - into winter with Covid-19

orussey98 · Post by **orussey98** » Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:13 pm

Yobbo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:16 pm

violet · Post by **violet** » Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:53 pm

This made me laugh!!

It’s a genuine stuff up

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyl ... AgvZnQS3Ps

Big Daikon · Post by **Big Daikon** » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:29 pm

Let's see where this goes.

Big Daikon · Post by **Big Daikon** » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:31 pm

Oz is getting wild!

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:28 pm

Saw this article today. Who or what is the race against?

‘This is a race’: Qld goes it alone to open 500-bed quarantine hub this year

The Queensland government will move ahead with a regional Howard Spring-style quarantine hub near Toowoomba, west of Brisbane, after negotiations with the federal government stalled.

The Wellcamp announcement comes one day after the Premier paused arrivals from interstate hotspots NSW, Victoria and the ACT for two weeks as hotel quarantine became “stretched to the limit”.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said the facility would have 500 beds open by the end of the year and 1000 beds by the end of the first quarter of 2022.

“We all know that our hotels were not built to deal with the Delta strain of this virus,” she said.

“What’s happening in New South Wales and Victoria is a direct result of the Delta strain coming in and essentially breaching hotel quarantine.

“We’ve got to get on with this.

“This is a race.”

Full: https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politi ... 58m0y.html

What could go wrong? Well, for a starter, by the time this is initially up and running ie end of the year, 70/80% of the OZ population will have been vaccinated by which time restrictions can be eased, compulsory quarantine centres will not be required and home quarantine for inbound travellers will suffice. Or is this a rogue premier still hanging on to the 'zero covid' policy against the opening up plan put forward by the federal gov't?

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:33 pm

An opinion piece by a Sydney doctor..

Lockdowns don’t just save lives, they cost lives too

As a practising doctor, it has become clear to me over the past 18 months that lockdowns not only inflict a financial cost – they also cost lives. The decision to impose a lockdown is not as simple as society making sacrifices to save lives. The decision is between losing lives to COVID-19 and losing lives to lockdowns.

The lives lost to COVID-19 are highly visible. In contrast, the lives lost to lockdowns have been and remain largely invisible.

Every life has equal moral value and our aim should be to reduce as many unnecessary deaths as possible, not just reduce deaths attributed to COVID-19. When I see a patient presenting with a disease that could have been diagnosed months, or even a year, earlier, I feel sad, angry and frustrated.
The patient is not going to do as well. The difference can be as stark as that between a cure and the prospect of death.

During lockdown last year, patients avoided seeing GPs and specialists. Lockdowns made them fear stepping outside. They missed screening tests for breast cancer, for bowel cancer, for heart disease. Consequently, there will be an increased number of deaths from these conditions in the years to come.

The incidence of anxiety and depression has not just increased during lockdowns – it has exploded. In Australia, it has more than doubled. Depression can lead to suicide and every year 3000 Australians take their own lives. Many of them are young and their deaths are not visible.

If lockdowns are justified on the basis of potential lives saved, the actual lives lost to lockdowns must also be acknowledged.

Full: https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 58lvu.html

SternAAlbifrons · Post by **SternAAlbifrons** » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:01 am

xandreu wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:43 pm Putting aside for a moment whether lock-downs actually work, how effective they are, whether the cost to the economy and mental health is worth the trade-off etc... Once the decision to lock-down has been made, it has to involve the compliance of everyone. Half-arsed lock-downs, where the majority isolate but the minority ignore, don't work. Especially if there are no severe consequences for not isolating. As soon as people perceive that locking yourself down is more of an option that an order, fewer and fewer people are going to do it until it gets to the point where you may as well not bother having a lock-down.

In may ways, this virus is the most socialist thing to happen to the world since the cold war. For any system to defeat the virus to have a chance of succeeding, it has to have the compliance of everyone. While not allowing people to opt out of measures such as lock-downs and vaccines does appear draconian, bordering of tyrannical, the truth is that if everyone did comply, we'd have a much quicker and better chance at putting some sort of closure on all of this.

Under any other circumstance, I would defend people's right to protest to the hilt, but I can't agree with the protests going on in Australia right now.

You said it perfectly for me, Xanadu, and for most Australians i believe.

Australia has set its course and that has been confirmed in numerous elections.
Sure it is good to have vigorous debate - but trying to break the general consensus at this stage is viewed a sabotage by many people.
It is one of Australia's most outstanding qualities - the willingness to pull together for the common good. Everybody has sacrificed so much that people get pretty heated about those who want to run their own race.

There is no doubt that the anti-vaxxers and those who carelessly spread the virus at this crucial stage will fuck up the plan - or at least delay the "new norm" in a meaningful way.
We just have to stay the course a little bit longer.

Clutch, I probably over reacted (^^ see our feelings about not all pulling together - ie, heated)
or maybe was a bit selective when i reacted to the "Shame Australia" and the "Australia is a prison" type comments. I probably was also including others who are calling Australians dupes and mindless authoritarian drones. and similar.

I don't think you are an extremist at all. I have been surprised at your pretty relentless negative comments about Australia's approach.
Those more extreme words ^^ then set me off.

I agree with a lot of your sentiments - so do many Australians - but most of us accept that every response has its drawbacks.
"White anting" is detested in Australia. We are on a mission and constant harping is seen as straight out sabotage.

Just trying to explain my own, and i believe, most australians attitude around this.

NB, sorry, but one particular point i feel compelled to press..
Australia's national debt is approx 35% of the USA, and about 50% of the UK's (approx, from memory) as a % of GDP.
- and the OECD predictions of it's repayments as a % of GDP , ie, ability to pay - are even more exaggerated.
So Australia could afford to buy its way out of immediate economic damage much cheaper than most countries did.
( I fully agree that our whole reliance on long-term debt is ethically reprehensible - but that is a much broader problem than just the Covid borrowings. Not to mention that Au is a very long way from being the worst offender)

anyway

violet · Post by **violet** » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:29 am

That 1000 bed facility in QLD suggests the premier sees quarantine being the norm for some time to come and is not going to open up any time soon.

And she has commenced this at a time when home quarantine was to be trialled by another state.

It’s depressing. Actually depressing.

Post by **Username Taken** » Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:24 am

violet wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:29 am That 1000 bed facility in QLD suggests the premier sees quarantine being the norm for some time to come and is not going to open up any time soon.

And she has commenced this at a time when home quarantine was to be trialled by another state.

It’s depressing. Actually depressing.

That, along with the Commonwealth owned facility at Pinkenba, which is right alongside the Brisbane airport, both are to be up an running by March next year. (When, exactly, were they planning to open up the country?)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-07/ ... /100350652

Doc67 · Post by **Doc67** » Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:43 am

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:01 am
xandreu wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:43 pm Putting aside for a moment whether lock-downs actually work, how effective they are, whether the cost to the economy and mental health is worth the trade-off etc... Once the decision to lock-down has been made, it has to involve the compliance of everyone. Half-arsed lock-downs, where the majority isolate but the minority ignore, don't work. Especially if there are no severe consequences for not isolating. As soon as people perceive that locking yourself down is more of an option that an order, fewer and fewer people are going to do it until it gets to the point where you may as well not bother having a lock-down.

In may ways, this virus is the most socialist thing to happen to the world since the cold war. For any system to defeat the virus to have a chance of succeeding, it has to have the compliance of everyone. While not allowing people to opt out of measures such as lock-downs and vaccines does appear draconian, bordering of tyrannical, the truth is that if everyone did comply, we'd have a much quicker and better chance at putting some sort of closure on all of this.

Under any other circumstance, I would defend people's right to protest to the hilt, but I can't agree with the protests going on in Australia right now.
You said it perfectly for me, Xanadu, and for most Australians i believe.

Australia has set its course and that has been confirmed in numerous elections.
Sure it is good to have vigorous debate - but trying to break the general consensus at this stage is viewed a sabotage by many people.
It is one of Australia's most outstanding qualities - the willingness to pull together for the common good. Everybody has sacrificed so much that people get pretty heated about those who want to run their own race.

There is no doubt that the anti-vaxxers and those who carelessly spread the virus at this crucial stage will fuck up the plan - or at least delay the "new norm" in a meaningful way.
We just have to stay the course a little bit longer.

Clutch, I probably over reacted (^^ see our feelings about not all pulling together - ie, heated)
or maybe was a bit selective when i reacted to the "Shame Australia" and the "Australia is a prison" type comments. I probably was also including others who are calling Australians dupes and mindless authoritarian drones. and similar.

I don't think you are an extremist at all. I have been surprised at your pretty relentless negative comments about Australia's approach.
Those more extreme words ^^ then set me off.

I agree with a lot of your sentiments - so do many Australians - but most of us accept that every response has its drawbacks.
"White anting" is detested in Australia. We are on a mission and constant harping is seen as straight out sabotage.

Just trying to explain my own, and i believe, most australians attitude around this.

NB, sorry, but one particular point i feel compelled to press..
Australia's national debt is approx 35% of the USA, and about 50% of the UK's (approx, from memory) as a % of GDP.
- and the OECD predictions of it's repayments as a % of GDP , ie, ability to pay - are even more exaggerated.
So Australia could afford to buy its way out of immediate economic damage much cheaper than most countries did.
( I fully agree that our whole reliance on long-term debt is ethically reprehensible - but that is a much broader problem than just the Covid borrowings. Not to mention that Au is a very long way from being the worst offender)

anyway

this virus is the most socialist thing to happen to the world since the cold war.

You said it perfectly for me, Xanadu,

Be honest Uncle Stern, he had you at "socialist" didn't he?

NZ, Australia - into winter with Covid-19

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