SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:25 am With due respect again Clutch - sincerely.

The ONLY people i hear "Australia has become a prison" "Shame Australia" garbage from are the radicals.
The anti vaxxers and the anti maskers.
The piddling few who support the demos yesterday.
The lunar right and the lunar wacko's.

Yes we are increasingly hearing this - from a few tiny percent.
- those who are enamoured by alien imported Trumpianism plus a few tie-dyed T-shirt wearing "micro-doser" casualties.
Australia rejects that shit outright. Sorry.

NO BODY else in Australia talks like this.
May i ask who you have been talking to?


PS If you didn't hear australians demand suppression you have a remarkably tin ear, my friend
The politicians don't. That is why support for every single government in australia has risen despite all the woes and and the hash measures.
Equally - most conservative responsible economists think Au made good choices, (as much as they agree on anything). But you are of course free to argue with them if you can.

Although not one myself - i have confidence that i speak in total accordance with the vast majority of Australians on this.

With respect, I think you've misconstrued my position on this.

I'm not an anti vaxxer and anti masker..quite the opposite.

I'm not against using covid suppression strategies either...just how and in what way they are delivered and targeted.

However, I'm against:

1. The zero covid policy of total elimination and eradication in the community. I believe it's unrealistic and delusional to pursue such a goal. It's just not feasible as Sydney and Melb are realising now. The lockdowns and strict border controls have come at a huge cost to the economy, business and the community. The costs are not just about $$ but other eg mental health. Nevertheless, the debt that has been incurred for paying businesses and workers to stay at home is a huge burden for future generations.

2. The slow roll out of vaccination. It's a disgrace. Due to: (a) the above zero covid policy of total elimination and eradication in the community which instilled a no requirement to vaccinate on the public. (b) scaring everybody on the risks of the AZ vaccine (albeit now there has been a total back flip on that) (c) the gov't being slow to purchase other vaccines.

3. Restrictions on Australians who want to return home from overseas. Instituting a 'quota' system to restrict numbers coming back (and since halving that!). Total ban on all return flights from India (some Australians have since died in India as a result). Preventing Australians from leaving the country unless they get a special exemption from the minister. Australians previously living overseas who return temporarily (say to visit a sick or dying family member) now have to also apply for this exemption to leave the country. Many of these applications are being knocked back I've read.

Whilst Australia has done well to minimise covid deaths and minimise pressure on the health system, it's handling of the pandemic has also meant it has been left behind imo compared to other western countries like the UK, US and Canada that are now opening up and lifting their restrictions. Australia needs to accept that covid is in the community and that it can be mitigated. The other thing is: if the government is so serious about saving lives at any cost, why don't they do more to deal with obesity in the community? Or road crash deaths?

If the above makes me a radical Stern, then so be it

Hundreds protest Queensland-NSW border restrictions

Some humour from the end of the world

I thought I would share an extract from a weekly newsletter I subscribe to from Percy Allan coz I think it's very insightful and neatly summarises the issues at hand. If you don't know who he is, here's a bio: At present over 28% of eligible Australians (which excludes under 16-year-olds) have been fully vaccinated and just over 50% have had at least one inoculation. The National Cabinet following advice from the Doherty Institute set a full vaccination target of 70% of the eligible population before blanket lockdown restrictions are eased and 80% before they are scrapped. With current rates of vaccination, it is estimated that the former target should be reached by November 4th and the latter by November 22nd. NSW might lead the pack by one week because of its accelerated effort.

Emerging Debate

However, these targets were premised on daily new cases being kept very low, which now seems improbable. Also, they assumed children would not need to be vaccinated, yet the new delta virus does not discriminate between old and young. The Grattan Institute insists that 80% of the entire population be vaccinated before lockdowns end because the targeted 80% of the “eligible population” equates to only 64% of the total population.

Several virologists, psychiatrists, sociologists, and economist have joined Grattan in challenging the validity of the Doherty nominated targets. They think they are redundant because if lockdowns end when 64% of the total population is vaccinated more than one in three people will still be unvaccinated so could overwhelm the hospital system if they got sick.

The Infectious Diseases Society of America says is necessary to have a population immunisation rate of close to 90% to achieve herd immunity. In Australia’s case that could mean staying in lockdowns until early 2022. Also, it might require mandating everyone to be vaccinated which no government yet accepts, though some employers are adopting a “no jab, no job policy” notwithstanding the federal government refusing to indemnify them.

Alternative Option

An alternative approach is to lift the lockdown on those who are fully vaccinated from September 1st and leave the remainder in social isolation until they too qualify for free movement. The vaccinated could still transmit the virus, but unless they had serious underlying conditions (which would confine them to home) should experience only mild symptoms if they contracted Covid-19.

Restricting freedom from lockdowns to the fully vaccinated should accelerate immunisation, especially amongst 16 to 39 years who will have access to a vaccine from the start of September. It would also allow businesses to reopen for staff and patrons who could prove their vaccination status from personal certificates downloadable from the MyGov website.

Economists say this could avoid a recession, two quarters of negative GDP growth, because restrictions could start to ease from September when the Pfizer vaccine shortage will significantly ease. In any case there is a stockpile of more than six million unused AstraZeneca doses which could go to waste, unless used. The risk of dying from a blood clot from this vaccine is only one in a million, which is much less than the risk of dying from Covid-19 by postponing vaccination while waiting for Pfizer a month to three longer.

Psychiatrists warn that incidents of depression and suicide will soar unless restrictions soon ease. And sociologists report that families are fraying and domestic violence escalating because job and welfare support is no longer as generous as it was in 2020. Epidemiologists by contrast keep arguing that only a hard and long lockdown until almost everyone is vaccinated will give optimal Covid-10 protection.

National Cabinet Fraying

Torn over this diverging advice are the Prime Minister and Premiers. The PM recognises that except for emergency funding, vaccine supply contracts and restricting and quarantining overseas arrivals Canberra’s powers are limited. That leaves the State Premiers who are each straying from the agreed four stage strategy for reopening society and the economy.

West Australia wants a zero-Covid outcome by excluding outsiders unless they have a vaccine passport. Queensland, Victoria, and South Australia aim for zero to low cases through applying fast and hard lockdowns. NSW focuses on accelerated injections since it believes it will have to coexist with Covid-19 like most other jurisdictions around the world.

The NSW Premier, Gladys Berejiklian, has foreshadowed an easing of strictures on those vaccinated once six million vaccinations have been achieved by this month’s end. "Does it mean we’ll live completely freely? No. But does it mean we'll live more freely than we do today? Absolutely," the Premier has vowed. "There will be extra freedoms than we have today and that's an absolute assurance. Once we get to six million jabs, we'll call on [NSW Chief Health Officer] Dr Chant to make considerations of what we can allow people to do who are vaccinated." Meanwhile Dr Chant says case numbers must fall before any restrictions are eased which seems contrary to the Premier’s view that the state must learn to live with COVID-19.

Overseas Lessons

Australia led the world in suppressing the virus in 2020 but has been a laggard in rolling out life-saving vaccines in 2021. Only New Zealand has a poorer record amongst OECD countries.


Source: Gerard Minack, Downunder Daily: Australia’s pandemic success complicates the recovery, 10th August 2021

Meanwhile in Britain Freedom Day on July 19th is proving successful. Covid-19 infections as predicted have jumped, but the numbers of hospital admissions and deaths have stayed low. However, more than four in five adults are now fully vaccinated which compares with just over one in four adults in Australia.

In Europe freedom of movement is now common with airlines reporting that passenger flights are almost back to normal. Over 65% of adults are now fully vaccinated. Infection and death rates have fallen.

51% of US adults have now been fully vaccinated. Because full vaccination coverage is uneven, ranging from 36% in Alabama to 67% in Vermont, there is higher transmission causing a surge in new cases in many states. Hospitalizations and deaths continue to be largely limited to the unvaccinated, and only a small percentage of vaccinated people experience breakthrough infections. Sadly, America’s bitter culture war is dissuading many Americans from being vaccinated.