Stay at home or go out???

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404FreedomNotFound
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by 404FreedomNotFound »

@Yerg
I can sit back and enjoy a beer with you today (through skype though I guess^^), I do not hate on people with different ideas, and as far as I know we might agree on more than we disagree if we were to talk about another subject completely. I can also go buy some beer, disinfect them and place them on your doorstep to avoid your parents getting contaminated, just make sure not to cheer for the police when they put me in jail cause bringing you beer is not part of the "authorized exceptions to the confinement"
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by 404FreedomNotFound »

Captain Bonez wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:33 am I remember years ago when I'd stand in line at Brixton Academy waiting to see whatever bands I'd gone to see. Usually there was some religious fellow that'd go up and down the queue waffling on and on and on about religion and telling people not to go inside and listen to the blasphemous music.

I never saw one person, out of all the times I witnessed that, ever leave the queue and be like, "You're right, I shouldn't go inside," and it's the same for you and those conspiracy theorists. You seem to just waffle on and ram shit down people's throats and no one gives a fuck.
People from religion say they want to modify others behavior for their own good, or in some instance for the common good.
This is what the confinement is all about, either enforce, or shove down your throat the order to confine. Ask others to modify their behavior for their own good or the common good.

On my end, this is above an argumentation about an issue where I believe modifying the comportment of other would save lives. I actually expressed regrets for falling in dumb rhetoric similar to "Do whatever, save lives" which is unfortunately everywhere nowdays. If you want to stay home I believe you will kill more people (as in previous post, this does not apply to people who are in the "at risk" demographics or their care-give / people living in the same house) but in the face of uncertainty I'm willing to help you confine yourself anyway.

To take your example, I'm going to a rock concert, and I have everyone, from the people, to lawmakers, to the police telling me I'm killing people and therefor should be jailed. Sorry for taking the piss at it. This is about people being in favor of harsh repression towards those who aren't doing what you tell us to do. I might be going down, but I wont do so in silence. Those religious people have had more success in having people leave the queue when and where they used repression and repressed liberties, shoving down their rhetoric not on the street but through every official media and institution. I hope you'd be one of those who' d take the piss at it and try to reduce their influence before it's too late.

This is the very first time in many years that I've argued on forums, but your support for those rhetoric and those laws means jail time for me. So sorry if I helplessly cry, but if anything else, stop supporting repression forced removal of basic freedoms and fascism. And whatever happens, I at least placed my brick hopefully others will too.
Last edited by 404FreedomNotFound on Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Yerg
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by Yerg »

404FreedomNotFound wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:10 am @Yerg
I can sit back and enjoy a beer with you today (through skype though I guess^^), I do not hate on people with different ideas, and as far as I know we might agree on more than we disagree if we were to talk about another subject completely. I can also go buy some beer, disinfect them and place them on your doorstep to avoid your parents getting contaminated, just make sure not to cheer for the police when they put me in jail cause bringing you beer is not part of the "authorized exceptions to the confinement"
Worst you'll get is a fine, first offence and all of that...
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by 404FreedomNotFound »

First offense...... exactly..... what then? And It goes well above that. And that's not even talking about the people who's business were forcibly closed (not by lack of customers, but by law). What about their fundamental freedom of freely trading honest goods, and providing for their families.
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by 404FreedomNotFound »

Funniest thing in all of that is I still have a job, and am making a killing off of this lockdown ; p And live in a country with minimal lockdown rules so far ; P And I have close elders with serious conditions as well (not living with me, back in my home country), and I'm the type of guy who always stays home anyway. Weirdly enough I'm one of those for whom this has had the least negative impact so far. That's why I was so adamant in making an account and participating in the conversation, imagine my stupor when I found out my views seemed to be completely out there compared with everyone else. But I guess people in europe just feel like they're getting paid without needing to work and feel ok about it. Not understanding that banks are stealing people's assets and they are creating debt and inflating the euros by increasing liquidity to pay for those salaries while they stay home. When time comes to pay the bill, and count lives saved, you might end up on my side. I'm not a bank but I'm part of the people using people's distress in order to buy their assets at low prices...... and yeah, the $ I make from this are not worth the lives lost, the hardship, and giving rise to world-wide fascism.
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SternAAlbifrons
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by SternAAlbifrons »

FreedomNotYet, I agree with the the general concerns you are expressing about the creeping totalitarianism of our societies. I have worked very hard my whole life to not being a puppet or a prisoner. Thats my thing.

However i think you are conflating that issue into something that is a genuine "community" wide initiative. "Community" and
mass expressions of "the peoples will" (as clearly coronavirus suppression is, for the vast majority of the planet's population) can be the antidote for totalitarianism - don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

(Not even mentioning that the vast majority of epidemiologists, and treating doctors, are in perfect unison that this will save the lives of so many.)
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Yerg
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by Yerg »

404FreedomNotFound wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:41 am First offense...... exactly..... what then? And It goes well above that. And that's not even talking about the people who's business were forcibly closed (not by lack of customers, but by law). What about their fundamental freedom of freely trading honest goods, and providing for their families.
Where's your sense of humour??? I was being sarcastic!! :lol:
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by 404FreedomNotFound »

SternAAlbifrons wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:04 am FreedomNotYet, I agree with the the general concerns you are expressing about the creeping totalitarianism of our societies. I have worked very hard my whole life to not being a puppet or a prisoner. Thats my thing.

However i think you are conflating that issue into something that is a genuine "community" wide initiative. "Community" and
mass expressions of "the peoples will" (as clearly coronavirus suppression is, for the vast majority of the planet's population) can be the antidote for totalitarianism - don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

(Not even mentioning that the vast majority of epidemiologists, and treating doctors, are in perfect unison that this will save the lives of so many.)
Yeah a lot of things are getting conflated and it's getting very messy. Those last post where more about what lead me to become a lowly forum preacher ; ( which I have to admit, is quiet a relevant critic due to the prevalence of my post on this thread since yesterday. So let me make my claims more clear on my views as to a community based confinement without repression :

-With a Confinement without repression, I would still encourage people not at risk and without high interaction with at risk populations not to confine as I believe it will save more lives (Taking in account all lives from poor, to elderly, to sick, to criminality, to everything not just corona death). My confidence level on this point is very high, especially if you do not only account for death, but also hardships and land/asset confiscations.

With a Confinement without repression I believe that taking into account only Deaths from the corona virus the amount of death would be lower in the EU, but I still believe that in countries such as Cambodia, it will inevitably lead to population movement from low risk population with high risk of being infected, towards at risk population which initially had lower risk of being infected. On this point though, my level of certitude is really low, but I do not see how you can avoid a rural exodus in cambodia if people stop consuming and having fun in the capital and stay home. And the data on how regional and international population movement coupled with local home confinement versus last year population movement statistics acts out on the expected coronavirus spread using common pandemic speculation tools, the former seems way worst in a spread scenario than the second one. Once again on this point, I have a low confidence level as to if it will actually reduce the coronavirus death in real life as events unfold. This is also specific to cambodia where stats are harder to come by.

-I support many solutions from confinement of population at risk, to strict control on regional or national travels etc...

-I Highly support changing people's hygienic habits, no more hand-shake, masks, washing our hands etc... during this pandemic.

-I do not support any type of forceful and liberticide laws directed at the people who do not have the disease as well as for the people who have the disease. (In the specific case of the corona, being a HighSpread / LowRisk type of virus, I would not hold similar views on ebola).

As I said, doctors care about corona death, and other people care about plumbing in Africa or the dude selling soup in his cart. Don't expect doctors to know how to implement anything executive either. They say reduce movements, it's not as easy as asking people to reduce movements for movements to actually reduce. Executive decisions and their impact is not really a doctor's forte. They said stay at home, they didn't say go back to your parent's house in the rural area cause the bar you are working on closed due to lack of customer. Do not make health expert say what they never said. That's why you don't read about what the expert says in the newspaper, you read what the expert says in expert studies. As I said, health expert say reduce movement to help reduce corona death. None of them said how to most efficiently reduce people's movement, None of them said if it would increase the overall Death tolls from poverty. Experts on migrations and Economics/Poverty do exist, and they are freaking out about the lockdown. The one in charge of listening to all experts and coming up with the best plan of action to save lives are not called expert, they are politicians, with their own goals which contrary to most experts does not always align with their job description.

As for Forceful confinement, I'd rather loose my life than bow my head.
Last edited by 404FreedomNotFound on Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:52 am, edited 7 times in total.
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atst
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by atst »

Just wondering is 404 explorer?
I'm standing up, so I must be straight.
What's a poor man do when the blues keep following him around.(Smoking Dynamite)
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Yerg
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Re: Stay at home or go out???

Post by Yerg »

atst wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:28 am Just wondering is 404 explorer?
He's a bit more prescient... And his arguments hold a lot more water... :dragonchase:
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