Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

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Duncan
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Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

Post by Duncan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:08 am

    monomial wrote:
    Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:33 pm
    Duncan wrote:
    Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:36 am
    I'm looking forward to the day when cyclo's have '' electro assisted '' peddle power, with a solar panel and battery. It must be bloody hard for some of those old village guys to get that extra boost of speed that is needed sometimes, especially when there is a big fat mama with all her groceries riding in it.
    Except in exceptional circumstances, such as when you have a very hard, non deformable wheel and very flat rolling surface, such as you might find with a steel wheel on a train track, the weight of a typical solar panel actually creates more rolling drag than the energy it can produce. So the idea of using cheap, polycrystalline cells to do this on deformable rubber wheels on asphalt is a net loss. Don't even think about it on dirt.

    There may be some very exotic and expensive monocrystalline cells that could make this viable, but you are looking at serious $$$. There are also some new organic polymer cells that might have a chance, but they are still in the lab and likely a decade away from commercialization. A lightweight, high density battery and fixed location rapid charging stations is the only practical idea at the moment.

    Are you telling me a cyclo [ or tuk-tuk ] that sits in the sun waiting for a passenger for 8 hours will not get enough sun on it's solar panel to keep the battery fully charged, so it can do a few trips that are usually only a few hundred metres long. On a cyclo it would only assist the driver while he is still peddling , the same as some electric bikes with peddles,, as I have seen here in OZ.
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    Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

    Post by AndyKK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:29 pm

    beaker wrote:
    Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:02 pm
    offroadscholar wrote:
    Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:42 pm
    stevenfalcons wrote:
    Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:20 am
    Hi everyone,

    I want to bring more ebike to the people. I am thinking about protyping a cheap ebike, mostly made with easily available local parts. I am also thinking about adding battery assisted package to old trailer or bicycle, promoting electric mobilities.

    Is there anyone interested in this kind of project?

    Any help is appreciated.
    Here's a Cambodian company that makes ebikes.
    I dont know anything about them other than whats on the website

    http://voltramotors.com/
    They are getting them via China and are doing the usual Khmer selling scam of not actually having them in stock but you have to pre-order then they will order at wholesale price and then double it +.
    They do the easy assembly from the package and claim they are made in Cambodia.
    Image
    https://opaisales.en.made-in-china.com/ ... V12ah.html
    I had noticed these bikes years back in Siem Reap. It maybe an alternative for the foreign traveller since there they can not rent a motorcycle nor ride in Angkor Park, but it comes in at double money (but that's irrelevant if you can't hire a petrol motor) the price for a full 24 hours is only 10$/ electric bike. that also only seats one person.
    Too me, it seems to be aimed naturally in having a cleaner environment, and rightly so, it would be in most peoples main interests (don't quote me please on petrol sellers). But the problems with the product and in normal save our environment, being responsible and green if you would use the term, are costs in development, but overall the customer who want to protect the environment needs deep pockets to do so at this time.
    It's been quote that the e-bike comes from China. The Voltra site says the following-
    VOLTRA is born of a French engineer whose story begins in 2013 when he sets his bags in Cambodia. In 2014, he created the first electric bike rental company in Siem Reap to visit the temples of Angkor. But this French engineer does not want to stop along the way and decides with all these technological skills to create the first Cambodian brand of electric scooters. For 3 years, research and travel allow him to create a brand that can compete with major international brands.

    http://voltramotors.com/

    http://www.greene-bike.com/index.html

    The Delfast has the mileage on its side, but at around the $4000 price mark that goes against it for many I would think, being that it is a bicycle in the end.

    offroadscholar, you are the person in the know, may I ask what millage you get again from your bike, and what is the overall cost of something like you have?

    What of the OP is he still doing anything on the project?
    Always "hope" but never "expect".
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    Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

    Post by monomial » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:15 pm

    Duncan wrote:
    Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:08 am
      monomial wrote:
      Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:33 pm
      Duncan wrote:
      Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:36 am
      I'm looking forward to the day when cyclo's have '' electro assisted '' peddle power, with a solar panel and battery. It must be bloody hard for some of those old village guys to get that extra boost of speed that is needed sometimes, especially when there is a big fat mama with all her groceries riding in it.
      Except in exceptional circumstances, such as when you have a very hard, non deformable wheel and very flat rolling surface, such as you might find with a steel wheel on a train track, the weight of a typical solar panel actually creates more rolling drag than the energy it can produce. So the idea of using cheap, polycrystalline cells to do this on deformable rubber wheels on asphalt is a net loss. Don't even think about it on dirt.

      There may be some very exotic and expensive monocrystalline cells that could make this viable, but you are looking at serious $$$. There are also some new organic polymer cells that might have a chance, but they are still in the lab and likely a decade away from commercialization. A lightweight, high density battery and fixed location rapid charging stations is the only practical idea at the moment.

      Are you telling me a cyclo [ or tuk-tuk ] that sits in the sun waiting for a passenger for 8 hours will not get enough sun on it's solar panel to keep the battery fully charged, so it can do a few trips that are usually only a few hundred metres long. On a cyclo it would only assist the driver while he is still peddling , the same as some electric bikes with peddles,, as I have seen here in OZ.
      I'm saying if that is your model it makes a heck of a lot more sense for that to be a fixed charging station. Otherwise, you are paying the penalty of hauling all that weight around when it is much more efficient to leave it behind.

      I am saying that you can not collect enough energy while moving to offset the drag induced by the weight of the panel. So since you have to sit in place anyway, you might as well sit in place by a fixed charging station. That is the optimal solution.
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      Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

      Post by monomial » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:44 pm

      If you are serious about doing something like an e-Bike, here is what I would recommend you investigate. Forget everything about solar panels. That is a dead end. Even rechargeable Li-Ion batteries are likely not where you want to go.

      Instead, concentrate on making a simple and cheap reduction furnace that can crank out lightweight aluminum air batteries from expended aluminum oxide plates. Then on your bike, submerge those aluminum air battery plates in a thin layer of oil. When you are ready to use them, dunk them in water to clear the oil and then slide them into the electrolyte for the trip.

      Aluminum air batteries are much lighter than Li-Ion. Only recharging them is a challenge. Figure out a low cost process and infrastructure to recharge, and you have a genuine, viable technology. Let the recharging be done at fixed locations, and you only need to carry around the weight of the aluminum plates and the electric motor on the bike itself.
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      Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

      Post by Duncan » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:48 am

      monomial wrote:
      Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:15 pm
      Duncan wrote:
      Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:08 am
        monomial wrote:
        Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:33 pm
        Duncan wrote:
        Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:36 am
        I'm looking forward to the day when cyclo's have '' electro assisted '' peddle power, with a solar panel and battery. It must be bloody hard for some of those old village guys to get that extra boost of speed that is needed sometimes, especially when there is a big fat mama with all her groceries riding in it.
        Except in exceptional circumstances, such as when you have a very hard, non deformable wheel and very flat rolling surface, such as you might find with a steel wheel on a train track, the weight of a typical solar panel actually creates more rolling drag than the energy it can produce. So the idea of using cheap, polycrystalline cells to do this on deformable rubber wheels on asphalt is a net loss. Don't even think about it on dirt.

        There may be some very exotic and expensive monocrystalline cells that could make this viable, but you are looking at serious $$$. There are also some new organic polymer cells that might have a chance, but they are still in the lab and likely a decade away from commercialization. A lightweight, high density battery and fixed location rapid charging stations is the only practical idea at the moment.

        Are you telling me a cyclo [ or tuk-tuk ] that sits in the sun waiting for a passenger for 8 hours will not get enough sun on it's solar panel to keep the battery fully charged, so it can do a few trips that are usually only a few hundred metres long. On a cyclo it would only assist the driver while he is still peddling , the same as some electric bikes with peddles,, as I have seen here in OZ.
        I'm saying if that is your model it makes a heck of a lot more sense for that to be a fixed charging station. Otherwise, you are paying the penalty of hauling all that weight around when it is much more efficient to leave it behind.

        I am saying that you can not collect enough energy while moving to offset the drag induced by the weight of the panel. So since you have to sit in place anyway, you might as well sit in place by a fixed charging station. That is the optimal solution.



        Great information there. When I see cyclo drivers I will tell them that.
        Cambodia,,,, Don't fall in love with her.
        Like the spoilt child she is, she will not be happy till she destroys herself from within and breaks your heart.
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        Marty
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        Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

        Post by Marty » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:15 am

        And not only that but according to Michael More's new film its all a scam and a ripoff anyway.
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        Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

        Post by phuketrichard » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:48 pm

        In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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        Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

        Post by offroadscholar » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:01 pm

        :shock:

        Solar bikes make presence in Cambodia, courtesy of Kore Energy Agency

        The Korea Energy Agency announced on April 22 that it will invest 10 billion won this year in a project aimed at supplying electric bikes and building solar charging stations in Cambodia.

        The agency has been conducting a pilot project in Phnom Penh and Siem Reap, a popular tourist town close to the world-famous “Angkor Wat,” since October last year.

        The electric bike supply project is designed to export photovoltaic (PV) systems, charging stations and electric bikes in a package.

        The agency has set up a 5-kW PV system and a charging station with three electric bikes near the Phnom Penh Government Office, and has three 2.5-kW PV facilities one charging station and three electric bikes near Angkor Wat.

        Through this project, the agency will increase the number of Korean-type solar bikes in Cambodia to 1,000 units first, and then expand charging stations to 30 and electric motorcycles to 4,000 units in the long term.

        The agency also signed an MOU on business cooperation with SK Securities and Verywords on April 16 to finance the expansion of the Cambodian project.

        The agency plans to introduce solar electric bikes not only to neighboring countries such as Vietnam and Indonesia but to Asian markets such as China and India, with Cambodia as the main base. According to Global Market Insight, a market research institute, the global electric bike market is expected to grow 5 percent annually by 2024.

        https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50716918/s ... gy-agency/
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        Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

        Post by AndyKK » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:53 pm

        This is interesting I thought. Good hobby for someone wanting to pass the time. Plans there too.



        Get the plans here (3D Sketchup CAD only): https://resystech.com/electric-motorcycle
        Always "hope" but never "expect".
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        Re: Help Wanted: Prototyping a cheap ebike for the people

        Post by Jerry Atrick » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:08 pm

        What's 120HPH in miles then, lol?
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