Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

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pczz
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Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by pczz »

Its been happening but people have been keeping quiet. The sick and elderly are to be allowed to die in favour of those more likely to survive.
This could be a major problem for Boris - most Tory supporters are the wrong side of 50, and support for brexit was mainly in that agegroup too. On the silver lining side if he can kill off enough of the sick and elderly he will solve the problems of how to staff the NHS when all the europeans go home. For the UK to be in this position is a scandal. 20 years of neglect of the health service is coming home to roost. Guarnatee none of our illustrious MP's will be going without ventilators.
[media]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51883515[/media]
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cptrelentless
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Re: Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by cptrelentless »

pczz wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:26 am Its been happening but people have been keeping quiet. The sick and elderly are to be allowed to die in favour of those more likely to survive.
This could be a major problem for Boris - most Tory supporters are the wrong side of 50, and support for brexit was mainly in that agegroup too. On the silver lining side if he can kill off enough of the sick and elderly he will solve the problems of how to staff the NHS when all the europeans go home. For the UK to be in this position is a scandal. 20 years of neglect of the health service is coming home to roost. Guarnatee none of our illustrious MP's will be going without ventilators.
[media]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51883515[/media]
Mortality rate even for the really old and decrepit is still barely 5%. You have to be pretty much fucked already to die, and even then it's no guarantee.
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cautious colin
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Re: Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by cautious colin »

cptrelentless wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:06 pm
pczz wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:26 am Its been happening but people have been keeping quiet. The sick and elderly are to be allowed to die in favour of those more likely to survive.
This could be a major problem for Boris - most Tory supporters are the wrong side of 50, and support for brexit was mainly in that agegroup too. On the silver lining side if he can kill off enough of the sick and elderly he will solve the problems of how to staff the NHS when all the europeans go home. For the UK to be in this position is a scandal. 20 years of neglect of the health service is coming home to roost. Guarnatee none of our illustrious MP's will be going without ventilators.
[media]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51883515[/media]
Mortality rate even for the really old and decrepit is still barely 5%. You have to be pretty much fucked already to die, and even then it's no guarantee.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ographics/

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Clutch Cargo
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Re: Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by Clutch Cargo »

pczz wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:26 am Its been happening but people have been keeping quiet. The sick and elderly are to be allowed to die in favour of those more likely to survive.
This could be a major problem for Boris - most Tory supporters are the wrong side of 50, and support for brexit was mainly in that agegroup too. On the silver lining side if he can kill off enough of the sick and elderly he will solve the problems of how to staff the NHS when all the europeans go home. For the UK to be in this position is a scandal. 20 years of neglect of the health service is coming home to roost. Guarnatee none of our illustrious MP's will be going without ventilators.
[media]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51883515[/media]
The UK seems to be adopting a different strategy..

Can herd immunity really protect us from coronavirus?

The UK government is aiming to achieve herd immunity as a way of tackling COVID-19. Herd immunity means enough people having immunity to a disease to stop it spreading.
the government’s strategy to minimise the impact of COVID-19 “is to allow the virus to pass through the entire population so that we acquire herd immunity, but at a much delayed speed so that those who suffer the most acute symptoms are able to receive the medical support they need, and such that the health service is not overwhelmed and crushed by the sheer number of cases it has to treat at any one time”.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/ ... protect-us
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cautious colin
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Re: Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by cautious colin »

Can herd immunity really protect us from coronavirus?

No, unless your ok with a lot of the old people dying.

Telling over 70s to self isolate is slightly ridiculous, a lot of them will need help from people that could be contagious. And with the UKs poor testing it's hard to know if you are contagious or not
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Re: Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by Anchor Moy »

This is going to sound disgusting, but I have a lot of friends who are supporting very aged parents with dementia who don't even know where they are.
If you have to make a choice between very elderly people who don't even know that they are alive, and saving the life of people who have a future potential to contribute to society, is that a bad choice ?
It's difficult, but if you can't save everyone, who should you save ?
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cautious colin
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Re: Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by cautious colin »

Anchor Moy wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:06 pm This is going to sound disgusting, but I have a lot of friends who are supporting very aged parents with dementia who don't even know where they are.
If you have to make a choice between very elderly people who don't even know that they are alive, and saving the life of people who have a future potential to contribute to society, is that a bad choice ?
It's difficult, but if you can't save everyone, who should you save ?
Whether right or not it is a risky position for the govt to take. As pczz said, that is their base
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Phnom Poon
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Re: Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by Phnom Poon »

the uk plan might work
but the risk profile for a 'creative approach' is all wrong

if the downside is limited, and the upside is infinite
of course you should try everything, take every risk to win big

if failure could be disastrous, while winning just gets you to the finish a bit quicker
you should be conservative

.

monstra mihi bona!
Anchor Moy
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Re: Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by Anchor Moy »

cautious colin wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:22 pm
Anchor Moy wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:06 pm This is going to sound disgusting, but I have a lot of friends who are supporting very aged parents with dementia who don't even know where they are.
If you have to make a choice between very elderly people who don't even know that they are alive, and saving the life of people who have a future potential to contribute to society, is that a bad choice ?
It's difficult, but if you can't save everyone, who should you save ?
Whether right or not it is a risky position for the govt to take. As pczz said, that is their base
To be clear, Im talking about people aged 85 and above, who are living in care homes, who have dementia or terminal diseases, and who have zero chance of recovering. The population in western countries is getting older, and the care facilities are getting better, so we are keeping people alive longer, but is this really a good thing ?
So much money goes into keeping old folks alive, and I wonder about this.
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Yerg
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Re: Coronavirus - the ultimate cure for an aging population

Post by Yerg »

Anchor Moy wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:08 pm
cautious colin wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:22 pm
Anchor Moy wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:06 pm This is going to sound disgusting, but I have a lot of friends who are supporting very aged parents with dementia who don't even know where they are.
If you have to make a choice between very elderly people who don't even know that they are alive, and saving the life of people who have a future potential to contribute to society, is that a bad choice ?
It's difficult, but if you can't save everyone, who should you save ?
Whether right or not it is a risky position for the govt to take. As pczz said, that is their base
To be clear, Im talking about people aged 85 and above, who are living in care homes, who have dementia or terminal diseases, and who have zero chance of recovering. The population in western countries is getting older, and the care facilities are getting better, so we are keeping people alive longer, but is this really a good thing ?
So much money goes into keeping old folks alive, and I wonder about this.
I, for one, have absolutely zero wish to see my ageing parents die earlier than they should, due to Coronavirus. They have underlying medical conditions, that would most likely put them at high risk if they were to get infected. Neither costs a king's ransom to be kept alive in their dotages. They've paid shit-loads of money in taxes and National Insurance over their working lives. My father worked solidly for approximately 50 years, and never once claimed any dole money on the two occasions he found himself redundant over that time. (Despite mine and my sister's protestations!)

Their pensions/investments in retirement continue to contribute taxes to society, so I am pretty sure they cover their own costs. And eventually, inheritance tax will certainly ensure that they've paid more than they've cost.

So I will do all I can to make sure they are safe. It looks like they've got up to 4 months to be confined coming up. They're both active and spritely, and an extended period of isolation will hurt them both. If we added dementia or other debilitating illnesses to this scenario, I'd STILL not wish my parents to be discarded so coldly. I'm happy to hang on to mine as long as I possibly can.
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