Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Jerry Atrick · Post by **Jerry Atrick** » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:30 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:22 pm
Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:12 pm I strongly disagree with the knee jerk banning of flights and tightened entry restrictions

Politicians led by media noise is not strong governance at all

Covid circus
AFAIK it's not just media noise, there's some scientific info as well.
The problem is the scientific info is far from complete, but with most Western countries in the northern hemisphere facing rapid growth of hospital admissions I can understand the precautions.
Just imagine what a seriously overwhelmed healthcare would mean. Triage followed by sedation instead of treatment for some, maybe for many. The army would have to guard the hospital staff.

Sure,

But it's unlikely that any of these variants will be more severe than the original ones. Generally, the mutations lessen the severity of illness.

If it really is a big bad boy killer mutation then closing borders will not make any difference save on a daily or hourly time frame

Delta was the boogeyman, now its omicron...three months later will prob rinse and repeat with another variant that again turns out to be a nothing burger... Frustrating

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:34 pm

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:30 pm
Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:22 pm
Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:12 pm I strongly disagree with the knee jerk banning of flights and tightened entry restrictions

Politicians led by media noise is not strong governance at all

Covid circus
AFAIK it's not just media noise, there's some scientific info as well.
The problem is the scientific info is far from complete, but with most Western countries in the northern hemisphere facing rapid growth of hospital admissions I can understand the precautions.
Just imagine what a seriously overwhelmed healthcare would mean. Triage followed by sedation instead of treatment for some, maybe for many. The army would have to guard the hospital staff.

Sure,

But it's unlikely that any of these variants will be more severe than the original ones. Generally, the mutations lessen the severity of illness.

If it really is a big bad boy killer mutation then closing borders will not make any difference save on a daily or hourly time frame

Delta was the boogeyman, now its omicron...three months later will prob rinse and repeat with another variant that again turns out to be a nothing burger... Frustrating

Yes. That's my guess too. So I bought stocks with a discount yesterday. At least that's my assumption.

If I am in the wrong, I will lose some money. If the governments are wrong they might be facing triage and civil unrest. So I understand their position. Closing borders will buy some time, and if they don't respond and shit hits the fan the quilotines will be set up quickly.

The decision makers are always wrong, no matter what. They responded too hard, too late, too weak, too .....

nemo · Post by **nemo** » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 pm

SARS 1 had a mortality over 30%, MERS was also high. These close cousins of covid are what fuel the fears that variants will not follow the normal course of decreased mortality which is not a rule- only an average behavior.

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:44 pm

nemo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 pm SARS 1 had a mortality over 30%, MERS was also high. These close cousins of covid are what fuel the fears that variants will not follow the normal course of decreased mortality which is not a rule- only an average behavior.

Governments are scared of a black swan. Very infectious combined with high mortality. Since covid started we have become more aware of black swans.

What are the odds if this one happening? Very low I guess. But if it occurs and they didn't respond..... Who gets the blame?

hburns · Post by **hburns** » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:57 pm

Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:12 pm I strongly disagree with the knee jerk banning of flights and tightened entry restrictions

Politicians led by media noise is not strong governance at all

Covid circus

I don't understand that way of thinking. The new variant accounts for 90% of cases in Guateng suggesting it is to be the new dominat strain of the virus. The travel restrictions as I understand them are a temporary measure until they know more about the new variant which should be in 2 or 3 weeks time. If its no worse than the delta then I assume the restrictions will be lifted. Surely its better to be cautious than do nothing. I can understand South Africa not being happy about the new travel restrictions, as one of their ministers said he is worried about the damage it will do to their tourism and business industries. I can also understand people who's travel plans are effected not being happy.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, I'm just curious why being cautious until more is known is a bad idea? Think how different things could have been if all travel was stopped from China in January 2019 or even earlier if the CCP were more honest and open when it was first detected.

Jerry Atrick · Post by **Jerry Atrick** » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:11 pm

hburns wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:57 pm
Jerry Atrick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:12 pm I strongly disagree with the knee jerk banning of flights and tightened entry restrictions

Politicians led by media noise is not strong governance at all

Covid circus
I don't understand that way of thinking. The new variant accounts for 90% of cases in Guateng suggesting it is to be the new dominat strain of the virus. The travel restrictions as I understand them are a temporary measure until they know more about the new variant which should be in 2 or 3 weeks time. If its no worse than the delta then I assume the restrictions will be lifted. Surely its better to be cautious than do nothing. I can understand South Africa not being happy about the new travel restrictions, as one of their ministers said he is worried about the damage it will do to their tourism and business industries. I can also understand people who's travel plans are effected not being happy.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, I'm just curious why being cautious until more is known is a bad idea? Think how different things could have been if all travel was stopped from China in January 2019 or even earlier if the CCP were more honest and open when it was first detected.

No, that's fair enough, I think we all pretty clearly see the difference in perspective between different long term posters in this thread, and there's nothing wrong with having different ideas about how covid has been, and could be, handled in the future

From the beginning I have opined for the safeguarding of those in the most at risk categories with the rest of the population (of all countries that is)
keeping the various economies running, keeping the supply chains balanced, eliminating the need for government bailouts and the attendant money printing on a scale not seen before driving the inflation that's gonna wreck more of us than covid ever could

Yesterday's news crashed all markets again, commerce is in turmoil. This is all rather bad, because humanity cannot simply stop and shelter in place like this for years. It's not sustainable imo

Anyhow that's a fast dash of where my head is at

hburns · Post by **hburns** » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:30 pm

Imposing early travel restrictions maybe, just maybe a way of keeping economies up and running without having to revert to lockdowns and all the damage and pain they cause.

Life in England has been the closest to normal for the past 4 months since the start of all this. The only thing which could really mess things up is if vaccinated people start ending up in hospitals in large numbers and if that happens we are back to the start only with already worse economies and public fatigue for it all.

I don't see the travel restrictions or the reintroduction of mandatory mask wearing here as going backwards but as a way of protecting the progress already made.

Let's just keep our fingers crossed that this mutates into a harmless virus although I would like to see the Xi variant just for the reaction from that chinese fella.

SternAAlbifrons · Post by **SternAAlbifrons** » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:14 pm

nemo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:14 pm Stock markets are being affected by the news

I am already getting a sense that the mood has shifted, at least here in Oz where people have been spreeing like drunken sailors.
Deflation - of confidence. A prick in the optimistic new "freedom bubble" that was starting to awaken with the high vax rates.
People are suddenly stopping and tightening the belt once again.

Like when Delta arrived. The big reality check.
I wonder if it will have more impact this time. I wonder if Amazon shipping numbers will stop skyrocketing and the price of beach holidays all over the vaxxinated world will come back down to affordable levels.

It will be verrry interesting to see how this plays out when the stock markets open tomorrow.

ExPenhMan · Post by **ExPenhMan** » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:10 am

Reuters caught up with Dr. Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Associaton and her experiences with the new variant, Omicron, in her own private practice.

Relax folks.

Headline: S.African doctor says patients with Omicron variant have "very mild" symptoms

Coetzee said a patient on Nov. 18 reported at her clinic being "extremely fatigued" for two days with body aches and headache.

"Symptoms at that stage was very much related to normal viral infection. And because we haven't seen COVID-19 for the past eight to 10 weeks, we decided to test," she said, adding that the patient and his family turned out to be positive.

On the same day, more patients came in with similar symptoms, which was when she realised there was "something else going on." Since then, she's seen two to three patients a day.

Coetzee, who is also on the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Vaccines, said unlike the Delta so far patients have not reported loss of smell or taste and there has been no major drop in oxygen levels with the new variant.

Her experience so far has been that the variant is affecting people who are 40 or younger. Almost half of the patients with Omicron symptoms that she treated were not vaccinated.

"The most predominant clinical complaint is severe fatigue for one or two days. With them, the headache and the body aches and pain."

Full story:

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/sa ... 021-11-28/

Doc67 · Post by **Doc67** » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:25 am

ExPenhMan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:10 am Reuters caught up with Dr. Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Associaton and her experiences with the new variant, Omicron, in her own private practice.

Relax folks.

Headline: S.African doctor says patients with Omicron variant have "very mild" symptoms

Coetzee said a patient on Nov. 18 reported at her clinic being "extremely fatigued" for two days with body aches and headache.

"Symptoms at that stage was very much related to normal viral infection. And because we haven't seen COVID-19 for the past eight to 10 weeks, we decided to test," she said, adding that the patient and his family turned out to be positive.

On the same day, more patients came in with similar symptoms, which was when she realised there was "something else going on." Since then, she's seen two to three patients a day.

Coetzee, who is also on the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Vaccines, said unlike the Delta so far patients have not reported loss of smell or taste and there has been no major drop in oxygen levels with the new variant.

Her experience so far has been that the variant is affecting people who are 40 or younger. Almost half of the patients with Omicron symptoms that she treated were not vaccinated.

"The most predominant clinical complaint is severe fatigue for one or two days. With them, the headache and the body aches and pain."
Full story:

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/sa ... 021-11-28/

So, ExPenhMan, have you booked your ticket to PP yet?

Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

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