Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

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armchairlawyer
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by armchairlawyer »

Kuroneko wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:57 am
The organizations touting unproved protocols for the antiparasitic drug may be harming vaccination efforts
That is a big reason why they vilify Ivermectin (the other is to prevent cheap competition for drugs like Pfizer's new one).
And it's true, the anti-vaxers do take solace from Ivermectin.
John Campbell's point is - please, please just use the best of everything that is available. Get the vax if you can.
There are billions who cannot yet get any vaccine, there are billions who have had a vaccine and who still get Covid and need drug therapy. They cannot all afford the under-patent drugs.

BTW, all Covid treatment is unproven at this stage. And there are many examples in medical history of existing drugs being repurposed for new treatments.
Big pharma is promoting a disinformation campaign. Some of what they say is true but the aim is to slant the story their way.
And it's not as if the "normal" treatments for Covid are working particularly well. In the last video I linked, Campbell explains in detail why Ivermectin works so well and he provides the links to the top quality journals so we can check his points.

Big pharma and the mainstream media have achieved a situation where a huge number of people are triggered by the mention of Ivermectin and those people do not have the time or inclination to do their own research, so they just continue getting triggered, exactly as big paharma and the MSM wants them to.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by ExPenhMan »

Kuroneko wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:57 am
armchairlawyer wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:25 pm
nemo wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:09 pm Where do they offer it as treatment?
Look at https://covid19criticalcare.com/

There are medics using it in USA, South Africa, Brazil, India.
And of course there was the population sweep in Uttar Pradesh in India. The WHO commended the success of this initiative (in an area where vaccination was unavailable to most people). But sadly the WHO webpage did not have space to mention that the primary part of the COVID prevention/treatment kit was....yep, you guessed it, Ivermectin.
The WHO could only find space to say that "medicine kits" were distributed.

https://www.who.int/india/news/feature- ... p-covid-19
That first link is to the FLCCC which is not a reliable source

2 fringe doctors created the myth that ivermectin is a 'miracle cure' for COVID-19 — whipping up false hope that could have deadly consequences

....... But Kory and Marik, through the FLCCC, have led millions of people (including the podcast host Joe Rogan and many of his followers) to believe that hard data from around the world supports the treatment of COVID-19 with ivermectin. Some of it comes from studies that cite data that has been found not to exist. In other instances, they cherry-pick information or jump to conclusions about ivermectin's role in ending illnesses in a way that makes ivermectin sound more effective against COVID-19 than it is.https://www.businessinsider.com/why-ive ... rge-2021-9

Fringe Doctors’ Groups Promote Ivermectin for COVID despite a Lack of Evidence

The organizations touting unproved protocols for the antiparasitic drug may be harming vaccination efforts

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... evidence/#


I don't have anything for or against Ivermectin, but the medical fraternity << brothers in arms with Big Pharma] doesn't want cheap, effective, ultra-safe Ivermectin to gain any traction. All I detect is a shrill media safely protecting their revenue streams from any cheap alternatives. Look at the put-down in the headlines: They would not use the word "fringe" if they were publishing an honest article. It's there to satisfy their advertisers and buddy buddy fraternity.

Look at the Scientific American page in your link. Three out of four ads are medical in nature. Do you think The SA is going to step on medical professional toes with a balanced view of, well, anything that smacks of anything less than Big Pharma?

I listened to interviews with Kory and Marik and Tess Lawry (as well as John Campbell) many months ago now. They all talk like doctors and researchers, they frame their statements in careful scientific language, there's no hyperbole. They're not wearing striped suits, checked shirts and big, colourful ties with a capital I (for Ivermectin) imprinted on them during presentations. They put their info out there and it's up to you to talk to your personal medical pro for alternatives -- something John Campbell says in every single presentation he posts.

Finally, all I ever see from the US CDC and WHO is a cold, hard statement that there's been no proof of ivermectin's effectiveness against COVID. But they never say we hope the scientific community conducts such a study. There you go Big Pharma, we'll keep rewarding your expensive efforts in creating COVID vaccines by keeping down anything cheap.

Anyway, I'm out of here.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by Kuroneko »

But the "Scientific community" have conducted trials and are studying it. As I already stated in one of the articles I posted:
"Despite claims of a conspiracy against ivermectin, Griffin points out that researchers are continuing to study it and other repurposed drugs for COVID. There are at-home randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials underway, including the COVID-OUT trial, the ACTIV-6 study and the U.K.-based PRINCIPLE trial."
The current evidence on the use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 patients is inconclusive. Until more data is available, WHO recommends that the drug only be used within clinical trials.
A guideline development group was convened in response to the increased international attention on ivermectin as a potential treatment for COVID-19. This group is an independent, international panel of experts, which includes clinical care experts in multiple specialties and also include an ethicist and patient-partners.

The group reviewed pooled data from 16 randomized controlled trials (total enrolled 2407), including both inpatients and outpatients with COVID-19. They determined that the evidence on whether ivermectin reduces mortality, need for mechanical ventilation, need for hospital admission and time to clinical improvement in COVID-19 patients is of “very low certainty,” due to the small sizes and methodological limitations of available trial data, including small number of events.
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-s ... cal-trials

Effect of Ivermectin on Time to Resolution of Symptoms Among Adults With Mild COVID-19 A Randomized Clinical Trial
IMPORTANCE Ivermectin is widely prescribed as a potential treatment for COVID-19 despite
uncertainty about its clinical benefit.
OBJECTIVE To determine whether ivermectin is an efficacious treatment for mild COVID-19
CONCLUSION AND RELEVANCE Among adults with mild COVID-19, a 5-day course of ivermectin, compared with placebo, did not significantly improve the time to resolution of symptoms. The findings do not support the use of ivermectin for treatment of mild COVID-19,although larger trials may be needed to understand the effects of ivermectin on other clinically relevant outcomes
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... .2021.3071

As I have posted earlier a number of papers advocating Ivermectin have been found, for example:
Expression of Concern: “Meta-analysis of Randomized Trials of Ivermectin to Treat SARS-CoV-2 Infection”
Andrew Hill, Anna Garratt, Jacob Levi, Jonathan Falconer, Leah Ellis, Kaitlyn McCann, Victoria Pilkington, Ambar Qavi, Junzheng Wang, Hannah Wentzel

On July 6, 2021, Open Forum Infectious Diseases published the article “Meta-analysis of Randomized Trials of Ivermectin to Treat SARS-CoV-2 Infection” by Hill, et al. Subsequently, we and the authors have learned that one of the studies on which this analysis was based has been withdrawn due to fraudulent data. The authors will be submitting a revised version excluding this study, and the currently posted paper will be retracted.
https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/8 ... 94/6346765
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by IraHayes »

Kuroneko wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:30 pm But the "Scientific community" have conducted trials and are studying it. As I already stated in one of the articles I posted:
"Despite claims of a conspiracy against ivermectin, Griffin points out that researchers are continuing to study it and other repurposed drugs for COVID. There are at-home randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials underway, including the COVID-OUT trial, the ACTIV-6 study and the U.K.-based PRINCIPLE trial."
The current evidence on the use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 patients is inconclusive. Until more data is available, WHO recommends that the drug only be used within clinical trials.
A guideline development group was convened in response to the increased international attention on ivermectin as a potential treatment for COVID-19. This group is an independent, international panel of experts, which includes clinical care experts in multiple specialties and also include an ethicist and patient-partners.

The group reviewed pooled data from 16 randomized controlled trials (total enrolled 2407), including both inpatients and outpatients with COVID-19. They determined that the evidence on whether ivermectin reduces mortality, need for mechanical ventilation, need for hospital admission and time to clinical improvement in COVID-19 patients is of “very low certainty,” due to the small sizes and methodological limitations of available trial data, including small number of events.
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-s ... cal-trials

Effect of Ivermectin on Time to Resolution of Symptoms Among Adults With Mild COVID-19 A Randomized Clinical Trial
IMPORTANCE Ivermectin is widely prescribed as a potential treatment for COVID-19 despite
uncertainty about its clinical benefit.
OBJECTIVE To determine whether ivermectin is an efficacious treatment for mild COVID-19
CONCLUSION AND RELEVANCE Among adults with mild COVID-19, a 5-day course of ivermectin, compared with placebo, did not significantly improve the time to resolution of symptoms. The findings do not support the use of ivermectin for treatment of mild COVID-19,although larger trials may be needed to understand the effects of ivermectin on other clinically relevant outcomes
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... .2021.3071

As I have posted earlier a number of papers advocating Ivermectin have been found, for example:
Expression of Concern: “Meta-analysis of Randomized Trials of Ivermectin to Treat SARS-CoV-2 Infection”
Andrew Hill, Anna Garratt, Jacob Levi, Jonathan Falconer, Leah Ellis, Kaitlyn McCann, Victoria Pilkington, Ambar Qavi, Junzheng Wang, Hannah Wentzel

On July 6, 2021, Open Forum Infectious Diseases published the article “Meta-analysis of Randomized Trials of Ivermectin to Treat SARS-CoV-2 Infection” by Hill, et al. Subsequently, we and the authors have learned that one of the studies on which this analysis was based has been withdrawn due to fraudulent data. The authors will be submitting a revised version excluding this study, and the currently posted paper will be retracted.
https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/8 ... 94/6346765
So a 5 day course proscribed by your physician wouldn't hurt you and who knows the placebo effect might kick in too. But other than that I'll be sticking it in the same bag as Tiger Balm and other traditional medicines.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by Kammekor »

ExPenhMan wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:14 pm I don't have anything for or against Ivermectin, but the medical fraternity << brothers in arms with Big Pharma] doesn't want cheap, effective, ultra-safe Ivermectin to gain any traction.
I don't know. It's a very narrow view on reality. Since covid started loads of hospitals had to scale down regular healthcare, losing large sources of income. From what I have understood so far regular hospital care is much more profitable than covid care.
So maybe big pharma isn't interested in a cheap game changer, but hospitals are.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by phuketrichard »

not sure where this goes but written by a respected author:
haven't read it yet, just got it>

Image
https://b-ok.asia/book/18165727/676689
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by AndyKK »

I suppose what is mainly on people's minds is a prevention, rather than a cure. Vaccines seem to be doing the job in most respects. I would also hope that they get better sooner than later.
Medicine, on the other hand, being hopefully a cure for the unfortunate people who have the Covid19 virus.
ivermectin dosage for five days seem to be thought upon by some has one medicine that may be a cure, or help in some way.
The World Health Organisation would like to see all proposed drugs to treat Covid19 patients too be tested by a documented trial with data results. Such was the only right way for the vaccines at the time. But, the WHO had faulted in one way, by not receiving the data on the Chinese vaccine, but for reasons, such has, what are the poorest countries going to do for prevention gave way to the vaccine "for emergency use". With hope's of receiving the clinical research data, but I think that is left to trials of the countries who had been receivers of the donated and sold vaccines. There too, what has been presented has had it's flaws.
But for such medicine for the treatment of, many countries for example were to use antimalarial drugs. This was a main concern for world supplies of such drugs, due to shortage of medicines that could not be replaced too there needs and that of the drugs real purposes.
Always "hope" but never "expect".
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by CEOCambodiaNews »

Austria to go into full lockdown as Covid surges
1 hour ago
Days after Austria imposed a lockdown on the unvaccinated, it has announced a full national Covid-19 lockdown starting on Monday.

Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said it would last a maximum of 20 days and there would be a legal requirement to get vaccinated from 1 February 2022.

He was responding to record case numbers and one of the lowest vaccination levels in Western Europe.

Many other European countries are imposing restrictions as cases rise.

"We don't want a fifth wave," said Mr Schallenberg after meeting the governors of Austria's nine provinces at a resort in the west of the country.

For a long time, there had been a consensus over avoiding mandatory vaccinations, the chancellor said.

However, too many people had been incited not to get the jab, because of "too many political forces, flimsy vaccination opponents and fake news", he added. The measures are yet to be finalised.

Latest figures show the incidence rate has risen to 1,049.9 cases per 100,000 people in the past week, and Health Minister Wolfgang Mückstein said imposing a lockdown was a "last resort". A record 15,809 cases were reported in the past 24 hours, in a population of under nine million.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59343650
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by Doc67 »

These anti vaxxers are now causing an unnecessary burden on society, in the health services and now by dragging everyone down with them with full scale lockdowns. I'm not sure they realise just how precarious their respective economies are - they can't take much more of this.

It will be an impossible task to literally force people to bare their arm and take the vaccine, and governments can make all the laws they like, they will be ignored.

I would start with measures that they can do quite easily. For example, those who refuse the vaccine will no longer be entitled to any social security / welfare payments or employment in any public sector employment. That will sort out 99% of that group.

The private sector can be dragooned into the battle with a $2000 a month employment tax surcharge for every unvaccinated employee, or they can dismiss them without compensation. Very few employers will pay it and many would relish the chance to thin out the payroll without any cost.

I listen to UK radio and the people who phone in espousing their anti-vax beliefs all sound like fucking idiots to me and it they all seems to have the same personality traits: they are anti-authority, anti-social and self-centred. They just want to be stubborn for the sake of it.

Cut off the money and let's see how deep their principles run.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by ExPenhMan »

Doc67 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:39 pm These anti vaxxers are now causing an unnecessary burden on society, in the health services and now by dragging everyone down with them with full scale lockdowns. I'm not sure they realise just how precarious their respective economies are - they can't take much more of this.

It will be an impossible task to literally force people to bare their arm and take the vaccine, and governments can make all the laws they like, they will be ignored.

I would start with measures that they can do quite easily. For example, those who refuse the vaccine will no longer be entitled to any social security / welfare payments or employment in any public sector employment. That will sort out 99% of that group.

The private sector can be dragooned into the battle with a $2000 a month employment tax surcharge for every unvaccinated employee, or they can dismiss them without compensation. Very few employers will pay it and many would relish the chance to thin out the payroll without any cost.

I listen to UK radio and the people who phone in espousing their anti-vax beliefs all sound like fucking idiots to me and it they all seems to have the same personality traits: they are anti-authority, anti-social and self-centred. They just want to be stubborn for the sake of it.

Cut off the money and let's see how deep their principles run.
"Stubborn for the sake of it." Exactly. Not one of them can present an even mildly coherent objection to vaccinations. The plank-heads seem to forget they've been getting inoculations (and anti-septic, anti-fungal and anti-viral treatments) all their lives and are still alive and better off for it. As are all their children, relatives, neighbours and colleagues. So we're back to "stubborn for the sake of it."

So if they're going to refuse to help themselves and help others -- community spirit -- so we can get this world back to some level of everydayness as we had in pre-2020, they will have to accept they're going to be second-class citizens. They should have their medical care cards revoked, have to pay for all treatments and drugs. If you want it all back, you get vaccinated. Extreme? Not really. If they jeopardize their community, they pay the price.
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