My girlfriend is a tourguide.

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angkorjohn2
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by angkorjohn2 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:35 pm

explorer wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:53 pm
Tarndog wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:48 pm
To Cambodians, no Cambodian female is a prostitute. She's 'just a poor girl trying to help her family'.
If you want to start that, you need to define prostitute.

Cambodian culture is conservative. Any girl who sleeps with a man she is not married to, is a prostitute.

I'd best tell my partner of 7+ years this bombshell, I might end up wearing tonight's meal though
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clutchcargo
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by clutchcargo » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:40 pm

Tarndog wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:48 pm
explorer wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:42 pm
Kammekor wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:38 pm
explorer wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:08 pm
Freightdog wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:20 am
But is that an entirely ‘western’ perception?
Cambodians are more conservative than Westerners. In Cambodian culture, if a girl stays in a hotel room with a man, she is either his wife or a prostitute.
Or his 'songsa' beside his wife....
To Cambodians, she is also a prostitute.
To Cambodians, no Cambodian female is a prostitute. She's 'just a poor girl trying to help her family'.
Yeah, I've always thought the term 'prostitute' is a loaded term and maybe better belongs in the west. Think brothels and hookers.

In Asia I think the notion is more 'fuzzie' for want of a better term imo. I recall seeing a thread on here where they did some sort of survey of bar girls and from memory none of the the girls considered themselves 'hookers'. And of course some are not...being drink only or 'original' girls.

Mrs Cargo's younger sister worked for a few years in the bars (albeit she has since left). Married and had 2 kids by the time she turned 18...minimal education and hubbie pissed off on her. She had to manage to support herself and the kids. At no stage did Mrs Cargo ever admonish her for working as a bar girl or looked down on her for doing so.
hunter8
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by hunter8 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:52 pm

These girls may or may not be viewed by other Cambodians as prostitutes, but all barangs here for sure are viewed as sex hungry animals. Except those, of course, who are viewed as junkies. Got to live with this stigma and somehow make the best of it.
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John Bingham
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by John Bingham » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:25 pm

angkorjohn2 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:35 pm
explorer wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:53 pm
Tarndog wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:48 pm
To Cambodians, no Cambodian female is a prostitute. She's 'just a poor girl trying to help her family'.
If you want to start that, you need to define prostitute.

Cambodian culture is conservative. Any girl who sleeps with a man she is not married to, is a prostitute.

I'd best tell my partner of 7+ years this bombshell, I might end up wearing tonight's meal though
It's just old- fashioned nonsense coming from a poster based in the backwards boonies. There is a big difference between sleeping together in a long relationship outside of wedlock and fucking for money.
hunter8
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by hunter8 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:37 pm

John Bingham wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:25 pm
There is a big difference between sleeping together in a long relationship outside of wedlock and fucking for money.
A Cambodian girl, whose father is “very strict” by her words, told me it is “not good” (“ort la or”) if a girl sleeps with a man out of wedlock. More than one girl said so. They also add that khmer ladies are not like barang ladies. And that sleeping with a man out of wedlock strips them of their value and self-worth. This conversation was not about sex for money, this was about sex in an unmarried relationship. Now, how representative of the Khmer culture are they? Majority or not? I am not making any statements here, genuinely asking those who have been here much longer than me.
angkorjohn2
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by angkorjohn2 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:19 pm

hunter8 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:37 pm
John Bingham wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:25 pm
There is a big difference between sleeping together in a long relationship outside of wedlock and fucking for money.
A Cambodian girl, whose father is “very strict” by her words, told me it is “not good” (“ort la or”) if a girl sleeps with a man out of wedlock. More than one girl said so. They also add that khmer ladies are not like barang ladies. And that sleeping with a man out of wedlock strips them of their value and self-worth. This conversation was not about sex for money, this was about sex in an unmarried relationship. Now, how representative of the Khmer culture are they? Majority or not? I am not making any statements here, genuinely asking those who have been here much longer than me.
I don't think it is as straightforward as not good girls and good girls

I'd say a high proportions of bar girl have been married and had a kid before being dumped/cheated on/sick of the abuse and leaving. By the old traditional values they are already they would be "past it". Additionally , most girls families believe they just work in a bar and so wouldn't think they were prostitutes.

I think however there is more shame culturally here in not being part of and doing anything to support your family. Therefore I don't think many people would look down on them same reason lady boys and gay people aren't shunned, regardless of the thoughts the parents may have about it, nothing would be more shameful than pushing away family for it.

Now yes sometimes of the more provincial girls who are force raised on chbab srey (law of the woman) of how they should behave etc. Etc. May believe that a woman loses worth but there are plenty of modern city girls who sent raised that way and have an exposure to western culture that makes them take control of their bodies, careers and relationships and will happily date as we would in the west without thinking bad of themselves. Many of the successful models and pop stars are certainly of the mindset and inspire a younger generation to act that way as well. I mean it is hardly as innocent and straight as the older generation especially the patriarch like to pretend with all their concubines, mistresses etc going on in the past.
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by SternAAlbifrons » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:35 pm

hunter8 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:37 pm
A Cambodian girl, whose father is “very strict” told me it is “not good” if a girl sleeps with a man out of wedlock.
This conversation ... was about sex in an unmarried relationship.
Now, how representative of the Khmer culture are they?
Good Q/discussion point, Hun.
my thoughts in a nutshell, based solely on lazy casual observation

Khmers are maybe two generations behind the West, in terms their attitude to defacto relationships. Think 1960's approx.
ie, There is a strong traditional overlay. And yes, it is generally thought of as "not good".
- but not that bad either, and things are changing fast.
Some Mums and Dads can be a real nightmare for sure, but i suspect that is easing too.

Khmers, i realise, are actually a lot more accepting of social sins they i previously thought. Family, friends, community rarely reject an individual.
I reckon the hard times opened up Cambodian hearts. They know the value of their family and their friends.
Being gay for example, or living in sin, is a petty thing to loose somebody to. I think they know that.

Now, what your girl thinks about this brave new world... (and mine)
is an entirely a seperate question.
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clutchcargo
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by clutchcargo » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:01 pm

hunter8 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:37 pm
John Bingham wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:25 pm
There is a big difference between sleeping together in a long relationship outside of wedlock and fucking for money.
A Cambodian girl, whose father is “very strict” by her words, told me it is “not good” (“ort la or”) if a girl sleeps with a man out of wedlock. More than one girl said so. They also add that khmer ladies are not like barang ladies. And that sleeping with a man out of wedlock strips them of their value and self-worth. This conversation was not about sex for money, this was about sex in an unmarried relationship. Now, how representative of the Khmer culture are they? Majority or not? I am not making any statements here, genuinely asking those who have been here much longer than me.
Yeah, good point.

I can only relate to my situation with Mrs Cargo. By the way, I affectionately refer to her as my Mrs on here but in actual fact she's my live in GF for a number of years and we are not married.

Her family do not see our relationship as ideal in that we live together unmarried. But they have grown to accept it. Why? I think partly because Mrs Cargo is quite independent and they know that she pretty much does what she wants. She also had a previous BF before me. Also, she's a city girl.

I'm gonna agree with explorer in that in the province they seem to be a lot stricter about this...certainly was the case with her brother and his marriage recently.
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by hunter8 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:38 pm

clutchcargo wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:01 pm
in the province they seem to be a lot stricter
Does it make a big difference if the boyfriend is khmer?
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clutchcargo
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Re: My girlfriend is a tourguide.

Post by clutchcargo » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:52 pm

hunter8 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:38 pm
clutchcargo wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:01 pm
in the province they seem to be a lot stricter
Does it make a big difference if the boyfriend is khmer?
I have limited knowledge from what I hear about what goes on in Mrs Cargo's province. But the general principle seems to apply there....no boom boom till marriage. So I doubt it makes much/any difference whether barang or Khmer. There may be exceptions tho. Other members living in the province are probably more knowledgeable to answer than me.
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