Islam is Right About Women

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IraHayes
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Islam is Right About Women

Post by IraHayes » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:37 am

Islam is right about women.

Fundamental Islam, their core beliefs, are right about women. Yes or no?
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Re: Islam is Right About Women

Post by Kuroneko » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:30 am

IraHayes wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:37 am
Islam is right about women.

Fundamental Islam, their core beliefs, are right about women. Yes or no?
I assume you are asking two questions here, that of islam's views on women in general and islamic fundamentalist views of women. Islam in general has a fairly wide view of women in society whereas fundamentalists tend to make a more restricted view, ie.

"Islamic fundamentalism has been defined as a movement of Muslims who regard earlier times favorably and seek to return to the fundamentals of the Islamic religion and live similarly to how the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his companions lived."

Generally:
In nearly all countries surveyed, a majority of Muslims say that a wife should always obey her husband. At the same time, there also is general agreement – at least outside sub-Saharan Africa – that a woman should have the right to decide for herself whether to wear a veil in public.

Muslims are less unified when it comes to questions of divorce and inheritance. The percentage of Muslims who say that a wife should have the right to divorce her husband varies widely among the countries surveyed, as does the proportion that believes sons and daughters should inherit equally.

In some, but not all, countries surveyed, Muslim women are more supportive of women’s rights than are Muslim men. Differences on these questions also are apparent between Muslims who want sharia to be the official law of the land in their country and those who do not.

Fundamentalist focus
If Islamic fundamentalism is essentially the following of Sharia law and a literal following of the Quran then the following is probably relevant to answering the question concerning fundamentalist views of women:

In some, but not all, countries surveyed, Muslim women are more supportive of women’s rights than are Muslim men. Differences on these questions also are apparent between Muslims who want sharia to be the official law of the land in their country and those who do not.

Differences between those who want sharia to be the official law and those who do not are most pronounced when it comes to the role of wives. In 10 of the 23 countries where the question was asked, supporters of sharia as official law are more likely to say wives must always obey their husbands. Especially large gaps are found in Albania (+44 percentage points), Kosovo (+34), Bosnia-Herzegovina (+34) and Russia (+33).

Muslims who favor an official role for sharia also tend to be less supportive of granting specific rights to women. For instance, in six countries, those who want Islamic law as the official law are less likely to say women should have the right to divorce, including in Russia (-34 percentage points), Morocco (-19) and Albania (-19). However, the opposite is true in Bangladesh (+13) and Jordan (+12).

Additionally, in seven countries, supporters of sharia as the official law of the land are less likely to say sons and daughters should receive equal inheritance. And in five countries, those who favor sharia as the official law are less likely to believe a woman should have the right to decide whether to wear a veil in public.

30 The Quran states that a woman should dress modestly, but it does not specifically require that she wear a veil. See Quran 24:30-31. Informed by certain hadith, however, all main legal schools of Islam (madhhab) mandate that women should veil. See Siddiqui, Mona. 2012. “Veil.” In McAuliffe, Jane Dammen, general editor. Encyclopaedia of the Qur’an. Brill. See also Hasan, Usama. 2011. “The Veil: Between Tradition and Reason, Culture and Context.” In Gabriel, Theodore and Rabiha Hannan, editors. “Islam and the Veil: Theoretical and Regional Contexts.” Continuum International Publishing Group, pages 65-80. (return to text)

31 According to most major schools of Islam (madhhab), a woman is permitted to divorce her husband under certain conditions. See Jawad, Haifaa A. 1998. “The Rights of Women in Islam: An Authentic Approach.” Palgrave Macmillan, page 8. (return to text)

32 The Quran specifies that a son should receive two shares of inheritance for every one share given to a daughter. See Quran 4:11.

33 Moroccan law does not require or forbid wearing a hijab. See Gray, Doris H. 2008. “Muslim Women on the Move: Moroccan Women and French Women of Moroccan Origin Speak Out.” Lexington Books, page 109. (return to text)

34 Moroccan laws adhere to the Quranic injunction that sons should receive twice the inheritance of daughters. See Sadiqi, Fatima. 2010. “Women’s Rights in the Middle East and North Africa 2010 – Morocco.” Freedom House.
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Re: Islam is Right About Women

Post by IraHayes » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:13 pm

Actually I was asking 1 simple question.

Is Islams view of women right?

It is a yes or no question.

If yes... it would mean that our views of women, ie as equal members of society is wrong.
or no, that Islam is wrong about women and that our views are right.
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Re: Islam is Right About Women

Post by SternAAlbifrons » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:34 pm

IraHayes wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:13 pm

.. our views of women, ie as equal members of society...
.
Oh, you mean those western values about women that have evolved only in our lifetime?
The ones the "feminazis" had to fight so hard for.

Not the ones we had for centuries until yesterday?

In that case WE are right.
Muslims and our parents are wrong.
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Re: Islam is Right About Women

Post by rozzieoz » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:14 pm

I don’t value any religion’s opinion on anything.
Once you've read the dictionary, every other book is just a remix.
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Re: Islam is Right About Women

Post by rozzieoz » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:59 pm

I’m curious as to the OP’s motivations for posting this. What are you hoping to achieve?
Once you've read the dictionary, every other book is just a remix.
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Re: Islam is Right About Women

Post by fax » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:23 pm

I guess he had a fight with his wife.
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Re: Islam is Right About Women

Post by SternAAlbifrons » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:54 pm

Not so different..
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Re: Islam is Right About Women

Post by Kuroneko » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:48 pm

IraHayes wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:13 pm
Actually I was asking 1 simple question.

Is Islams view of women right?

It is a yes or no question.

If yes... it would mean that our views of women, ie as equal members of society is wrong.
or no, that Islam is wrong about women and that our views are right.
Actually you are making a number of erroneous assumptions. Firstly that Islam is somewhat "monolithic" in its views of women, which it is not, the assumption that the views about women are negative, and that if one view is right the other must be wrong. It is a product of both the original teachings of the prophet and the cultural values in which it is embedded. As in the background information I posted, the general Islamic view of women varies considerably from culture to culture, and even the Islamic fundamentalist view of women, is actually not that fundamentalist as it often incorporates views of that are derogatory to women and that are not in the Koran.

To attempt to answer the question "Is Islams view of women right?" the following is relevant:

In Islam, men and women are moral equals in God's sight and are expected to fulfill the same duties of worship, prayer, faith, almsgiving, fasting, and pilgrimage to Mecca. Islam generally improved the status of women compared to earlier Arab cultures, prohibiting female infanticide and recognizing women's full personhood. Islamic law emphasizes the contractual nature of marriage, requiring that a dowry be paid to the woman rather than to her family, and guaranteeing women's rights of inheritance and to own and manage property. Women were also granted the right to live in the matrimonial home and receive financial maintainance during marriage and a waiting period following death and divorce.

The historical record shows that Muhammad consulted women and weighed their opinions seriously. At least one woman, Umm Waraqah , was appointed imam over her household by Muhammad. Women contributed significantly to the canonization of the Quran. A woman is known to have corrected the authoritative ruling of Caliph Umar on dowry. Women prayed in mosques unsegregated from men, were involved in hadith transmission, gave sanctuary to men, engaged in commercial transactions, were encouraged to seek knowledge, and were both instructors and pupils in the early Islamic period. Muhammad's last wife, Aishah , was a well-known authority in medicine, history, and rhetoric. The Quran refers to women who pledged an oath of allegiance to Muhammad independently of their male kin. Some distinguished women converted to Islam prior to their husbands, a demonstration of Islam's recognition of their capacity for independent action. Caliph Umar appointed women to serve as officials in the market of Medina. Biographies of distinguished women, especially in Muhammad's household, show that women behaved relatively autonomously in early Islam. In Sufi circles, women were recognized as teachers, adherents, “spiritual mothers,” and even inheritors of the spiritual secrets of their fathers.

No woman held religious titles in Islam, but many women held political power, some jointly with their husbands, others independently. The best-known women rulers in the premodern era include Khayzuran , who governed the Muslim Empire under three Abbasid caliphs in the eighth century; Malika Asma bint Shihab al-Sulayhiyya and Malika Arwa bint Ahmad al-Sulayhiyya , who both held power in Yemen in the eleventh century; Sitt al-Mulk , a Fatimid queen of Egypt in the eleventh century; the Berber queen Zaynab al-Nafzawiyah (r. 1061 – 1107 ); two thirteenth-century Mamluk queens, Shajar al-Durr in Cairo and Radiyyah in Delhi; six Mongol queens, including Kutlugh Khatun (thirteenth century) and her daughter Padishah Khatun of the Kutlugh-Khanid dynasty; the fifteenth-century Andalusian queen Aishah al-Hurra , known by the Spaniards as Sultana Madre de Boabdil ; Sayyida al-Hurra , governor of Tetouán in Morocco (r. 1510 – 1542 ); and four seventeenth-century Indonesian queens.

Nevertheless, the status of women in premodern Islam in general conformed not to Quranic ideals but to prevailing patriarchal cultural norms. As a result, improvement of the status of women became a major issue in modern, reformist Islam.

Women today are active participants in grassroots organizations; development projects; economic, education, health, and political projects; relief efforts; charitable associations; and social services. Modern reforms have made polygynous marriages difficult or illegal; permitted wives to sue for divorce in religious courts, particularly in cases of cruelty, desertion, or dangerous contagious diseases; provided women with the right to contract themselves in marriage; required husbands to find housing for a divorced wife while she has custody over the children; increased the minimum age for spouses; limited the ability of guardians to contract women in marriage against their wishes; provided opportunities for minor girls wed against their wishes to abrogate the marriage upon reaching majority; enhanced the rights of women with regard to child custody; and allowed women to write clauses into marriage contracts that limit the husband's authority over them. http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/art ... t125/e2510

In the contemporary era, women have again assumed leadership roles in the Muslim world. Benazir Bhutto was prime minister of Pakistan ( 1988 – 90 , 1993 – 96 ), Tansu ç;iller was prime minister of Turkey ( 1993 – 96 ), and Shaykh Hasina is the current prime minister of Bangladesh ( 1996 –). Nonetheless, tensions remain between traditionalists, who advocate continued patriarchy, and reformists, who advocate continued liberation of women.

In answer to your question, "Is Islams view of women right?" and from the above it seems that the Islamic view of women is fairly reasonable and not contradictory to western views on women, and while on scrutiny I might find some issues on the whole I agree with the above view.
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Re: Islam is Right About Women

Post by clutchcargo » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:35 pm

I'm probably a novice on this subject but heck, it's a discussion forum right?

Seems to me it's hard to generalise as the topic heading suggests.. As Kuroneko has comprehensively posted ..the issue is somewhat complex and there are regional differences..

Yet, one can be swayed from personal experiences and what we see and hear (eg how Saudi women are treated). Anecdotally for me, I frequent a halal restaurant here which is run by 2 muslim guys and I cant help but notice they are sitting on their arses all day at the front on their phones while their women do all the work.

There seems to be no equality there imo...
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