Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Bitte_Kein_Lexus · Post by **Bitte_Kein_Lexus** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:51 am

Glad I'm not the only one then. I think the authorities are a bit blind to it all, and just like to hike prices assuming the market will always bear it.

I'm sure it's changed, but when I went there the facilities were pretty basic. I don't recall there being any bathrooms, barely any benches or shaded rest areas. Mostly kids trying to sell you stuff. I know it ruffles Cambodian feathers when one says it, but to seasoned travellers it's not exactly the greatest thing in the world either. It's obviously impressive, but there are countless other sights in the world that are equally amazing.

I also can't imagine the number of people visiting now. I don't think I'd be able to enjoy it with such crowds, so I'm unlikely to ever go back unless my family comes over or something (and even then, I'd likely just have them visit and meet-up with them in the evening). I remember thinking the Taj Mahal was the most overrated building in the world when I first went because of the crowds, and pretty soon it wouldn't surprise me if others think the same of AW upon their first visit.

Places like Bali and Phuket get people returning because there's a lot to do. Waterparks, beaches, temples, surfing, dirtbiking etc. Nepal gets lots of returning visitors because there is a countless number of unique hikes to do. Siem Reap is still lacking in terms of things to keep international travellers there for more than 3-4 days.

The way I see it, they have two options.
1-AW stays a "one time" place in people's minds. Not necessarily a bad thing, as visitor numbers will rebound anyways given the growth in general worldwide tourism, as well as China's seemingly inexhaustible supply of potential visitors.

2-They turn SR into a "go-to" place by opening museums, improving and modernizing existing facilities, promoting private sector investment into unique activities, promote further out temples and generally cut the entry prices greatly. Only then would international travellers consider visiting again. At the current ticket price point, people just try to cram as much in a day or three-day pass as they can, get temples out, and then never come back.

TWY · Post by **TWY** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:17 pm

The cost of the one day ticket hurts in that folks just settle for the single day. Don't know how they are counting visitors but I know the first time I visited I had bought a one day ticket for $20 and figured that if I wanted to see more I'd just buy another one - since it was the same as the 3 day ticket. I know I've run into others in the past that did the same thing - and similar to myself bought another one day pass. So I accounted for 2 ticket sales the first time I visited.

Though much smaller impact. I now no longer accompany my wife when her family decides to visit and head out to Angkor Wat for a picnic, or go up to the waterfall. When it was $20 I could roll my eyes and pay and go along. But when the price changed I simply told her I wasn't paying $37 so that I could ride two hours in a van (when we would go to the waterfall), visit a Buddhist temple (that requires me to go up a ton of steps), and sit by a waterfall eating overpriced Khmer food that I don't really like. She agreed that its not worth it.

Look at it this way... it costs a family of four $35 to enter the Grand Canyon for a week. And while I think thats too cheap, compare it to a family of four thinking about visiting Angkor Wat and other temples for a few days..... $248 for a three day visit.

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:24 pm

But, if ur not visiting inside the temple, you do not need a ticket.
Many times i have gone out to Angkor Wat or the Bayon for sunrise or sunset shots, never paid for a ticket as never went into the temple complex

I personally dont feel $35 for a ticket is way overpriced, IF i knew some of that was going to upkeep and or Restoration work there.

Is it overpriced if you compare it to Bagan is only $10 for one day or 2, 3 or more
Inle lake is $15 for as long as ur there.

davegorman · Post by **davegorman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:44 pm

Its only $32 to go up the Eiffel Tower.
But then you’re bound to run into and hear those annoying twats the French.

Plus the queues are horrendous. Plus it’s in France. Yuk.

John Bingham · Post by **John Bingham** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:30 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:26 am Been there once in 2017. I lasted an hour at the first one and got bored. Never going back. Over rated and over priced.
It's just a clearing in the forest with a pile of old stone in it with deadly steep worn out stairs and botched up wooden makeshift steps installed to stop people breaking their limbs every day.

Well the type of person who gets bored in an hour and sees the largest temple in the world as "a clearing in the forest with a pile of old stone in it" probably shouldn't bother going to see the place in the first place.

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:I'm sure it's changed, but when I went there the facilities were pretty basic. I don't recall there being any bathrooms, barely any benches or shaded rest areas.

There are plenty of bathrooms around the sites, there's a very modern clean one about 50 meters to the south of the main temple.

I also can't imagine the number of people visiting now. I don't think I'd be able to enjoy it with such crowds, so I'm unlikely to ever go back unless my family comes over or something (and even then, I'd likely just have them visit and meet-up with them in the evening). I remember thinking the Taj Mahal was the most overrated building in the world when I first went because of the crowds, and pretty soon it wouldn't surprise me if others think the same of AW upon their first visit.

I was there 2 weeks ago, for the fourth time, and while there are quite a few people visiting Angkor Wat it is only one of the sites and there are still many temples where it is quiet. The ticket price isn't just for Angkor Wat, it's for a huge number of temples and sites within the Angkor Archaeological Park. I didn't even go into the temple part of Angkor Wat on the recent visit, I walked around looking at the gates with an architect friend, and saw only one other person visiting the east gate. I was at the Taj Mahal a couple of times and it wasn't particularly crowded. I think it's a fantastic building, unfortunately it's in the middle of a horrible polluted city.

Phuket Richard wrote:But, if ur not visiting inside the temple, you do not need a ticket.

You need a ticket to go anywhere inside the park.

I personally dont feel $35 for a ticket is way overpriced, IF i knew some of that was going to upkeep and or Restoration work there.

It's $37, and there has always been restoration work going on, I don't know how anyone wouldn't notice that. For example the main bridge over the moat has been undergoing restoration for over a year, and there has been constant restoration going on on the towers for at least 12 years.

Is it overpriced if you compare it to Bagan is only $10 for one day or 2, 3 or more

Bagan is basically just a bunch of stupas and badly repaired temples, so you can't compare the two.

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:30 pm

You need a ticket to go anywhere inside the park.

Have driven numerous times into the park since 2004, ONLY have brought a ticket if i wished to go inside a temple, ( not since it was raised to $37 (sorry for saying $35)
Last time was July last year, one sunset at Angkor Wat, one at Bayon.

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:43 pm

Adam Xie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:33 am
davegorman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:25 am I’m confused. (Not hard)
If the visitors to Angkor Wat are significantly lower than last year then what’s that got to do with “zero dollar” tours being blamed?

If they are not visiting they are not paying to enter and just buying tat at selected (Chinese) shops. (Probably because they upped the price)
So they came all the way to not actually visit the thing they came to visit?!

What am I missing?
To answer your question, let me share a bit how "Zero dollar" tours works (from my past experience):

1. first of all, travel agent at China will put out attractive advertisement such as 3 days package tour from China to Siem Reap with unbelievable low price (for example USD100 for the whole 3 days trip )

2.when tourist arrives at Siem Reap, their schedule would be: half day (or even less) for visiting iconic Angkor wat or random tourist check point, than the rest of time will be brought to all kinds of shops for forced shopping (with incredibly high price).

If tour group does not meet the shopping quota, tour guide will do certain nasty things to travelers, including but not limited to :cursing tourist's parents or kids, personal insulting, physical offensive action, order tour bus to leave while left tourist stranded in some rural location.

If tour group does meet the shopping quota, tour guide will not do nasty things to them, make sure they get back to China with cheap flights.

From past experience, poor tourist that got stranded always finds their way back to home somehow (contact Chinese embassy, or post SOS message in Wechat group), but either the case, they won't come to Cambodia again for the experience they got from this "Zero dollar" tour.

3. Travel agent got big cash back from those shop where they brought their customer to do the force shopping (travel agents demand cash back payment from shop owner as soon as customer left shops or some time even while customer still inside shops), the USD100 they collected from customers, merely to cover the price of Angkor wat ticket and cheap flights, cash back is their true source of incomes

So, finally to answer your question: due to "Zero dollar" tour is focusing on "One off deal", so travel agent's focus is not whether tourist will visit Siem Reap again, but to make sure (in bad ways) the tour group meet the shopping quota, the horrible things they did to tourists bring huge bad impression to tourist about Cambodia and significantly reduces the chance for tourist to visit Siem Reap again in future, this cause Cambodia lost is future income as well as country's image.

One thing to point out, "Zero -Dollar" tour group is “normal phenomenon” in China, it recently comes to Cambodia as part of many "gifts".

Yeah, I reckon this is the key thing. The Chinese are the main visitors and if they have a bad experience with this 'pressure shopping' practice to make up for the super cheap package holidays bought back in China, they will be pissed off....not only to not return but also importantly, tell their family and friends back home and it goes viral that Angkor Wat is not a good holiday.

Thailand has had this problem for a long time (even the Gold Coast in Australia) where these groups are not only pressured to buy stuff but taken to Chinese owned or run shops and restaurants and so the locals don't get much of a look-in to the tourist revenue. I recall reading Thailand/Australia took measures to stop this practice but dunno how successful that has been. Something the khmers will have to deal with imo.

I think this previous thread talks about that too topic22558.html

TWY · Post by **TWY** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:48 pm

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:30 pm
You need a ticket to go anywhere inside the park.
Have driven numerous times into the park since 2004, ONLY have brought a ticket if i wished to go inside a temple, ( not since it was raised to $37 (sorry for saying $35)
Last time was July last year, one sunset at Angkor Wat, one at Bayon.

------------------

Well, in the past four years I've been either in the park or at the waterfalls about 9-10 times. Every time we've been stopped on the road and asked for ticket for myself as we enter the park area. And depending on the route to the waterfalls, I believe we sometimes are stopped twice. Once upon entering the Angkor Wat park area and once prior to the waterfall area. Perhaps if you go late in the afternoon/early evening they've given up and gone home, but my experience is that you require a ticket and they are checking for one.

John Bingham · Post by **John Bingham** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:24 pm

TWY wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:48 pm Well, in the past four years I've been either in the park or at the waterfalls about 9-10 times. Every time we've been stopped on the road and asked for ticket for myself as we enter the park area. And depending on the route to the waterfalls, I believe we sometimes are stopped twice. Once upon entering the Angkor Wat park area and once prior to the waterfall area. Perhaps if you go late in the afternoon/early evening they've given up and gone home, but my experience is that you require a ticket and they are checking for one.

I've had my ticket checked every time I've been there (2000/2007/2018/2019). Last year I was visiting a center about 11 km from Siem Reap City and noticed some old buildings nearby, so went to have a quick look. There was nothing but the remains of some battered brick towers held up with wooden beams. A guard popped out of nowhere and asked for my ticket, luckily I had one. There's a large fine for anyone found without one.

davegorman · Post by **davegorman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:29 pm

See, even JB returns. (Probably with his new piece of ass).

Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

Re: Chinese "Zero-Cost Tours " Blamed for Lost Angkor Wat Revenue

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