Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Have questions or resources regarding Khmer Culture? This forum is all about the Kingdom of Cambodia's culture. Khmer language, Cambodian weddings, French influence, Cambodian architecture, Cambodian politics, Khmer customs, etc? This is the place. Living in Cambodia can cause you to experience a whole new level of culture shock, so feel free to talk about all things related to the Khmer people, and their traditions. And if you want something in Khmer script translated into English, you will probably find what you need.
User avatar
Phnom Poon
Expatriate
Posts: 1795
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:44 pm
Reputation: 892
Kiribati

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by Phnom Poon »

:yawn: tired old cliches and arguments

some people stay by passionate choice, others not so much, or at all
there's good
there's bad
both are worth discussing
as everywhere, the bad is often much more astounding

.

monstra mihi bona!
phnompenhsteve
Expatriate
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:12 pm
Reputation: 27
Canada

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by phnompenhsteve »

You must just be having bad luck then. Just the other day a lady dropped her bag while sitting on her moto waiting at a red light. I picked it up and handed it to her and she was all" oh thank you,thank you,thank you".
A couple weeks back a guy started pulling over to the side of the road. Me,on my bike,didn't notice and kept going straight,cutting him off and causing his 2 big boxes to topple off.
I stopped and helped him strap them back on. I was at fault there but he still kept smiling and " thak you ,thank you,thank you."
Sure i've held the door open for people and they've never said anything back but as a general rule I think people here are very polite and respectful. People back home are worse. Usually in so much of a hurry that they won't even give you the time of day.
Tarndog wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 8:06 am Sadly, I have had the occasion to say this several times throughout my time in Cambodia, but it bears repeating, especially after the last 24 hours.

What is it with Cambodians, who seem to lack common courtesy, appreciation or respect (toward foreigners or everyone, who can really know)? It's as though we're only here for them. I think the only reason we're tolerated is because they want our money.

Yesterday I went to eat lunch at the same place I've been eating 2-3x a day for 2 years. Luckily, when I got there the place was empty, and they only had 1 piece of chicken left. Well, the guy knows that's what I eat, so he serves it up on a plate, and starts to bring it to me. At that moment, a youngish woman of about 25 comes and wants to eat chicken. He tells her they don't have any more. Upon hearing this, I offer it to her, but the shop owner tells me 'no', saying I was there first. I again tell him it's ok, look at them both and tell them she can have it, and that I will eat something else. So he gives the chicken, which I hadn't even received yet, to her, and then she complains about the price, which I know is the same price for all Cambodians, even myself. She doesn't even think to thank me for giving the last piece to her, and then walks away after paying.

Fast forward 18 hours to this morning, I'm eating my breakfast at the same shop, same table, same chair, and some Khmer grandmother pulls up on a moto with her 2 grandkids, about 1.5 and 5 years old. As the grandmother is trying to get off the moto, she is unable to support the weight of the moto while attempting to get the kickstand down, and the moto knocks her backward, flat on her ass, to the ground, on top of all three of them, as the 2 kids had just climbed off and were standing next to their grandma waiting for her to park the bike. Being the closest, I quickly got up and lifted the moto off them and set the kickstand in place. Again, not even a thought of saying 'thanks'.

I know that a couple of people here on CEO still say how great all these people are, and sth about being with the wrong kind of people. But I wasn't with either of these people. I will accept that some Khmer might have said thanks in these situations, and that it is not necessarily representative of 100% of their population. But in America, I think you'd get a thanks in 100% of those situations.

It's not as if they don't know the words 'thank you', but damned if they say it.
User avatar
Username Taken
Raven
Posts: 13900
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 6:53 pm
Reputation: 5963
Cambodia

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by Username Taken »

Whenever I hold the door open for someone and they don't say thank you, I always say "you're welcome".
BR549
Expatriate
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:44 pm
Reputation: 192
United States of America

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by BR549 »

I have Khmer people thank me all the time..especislly tuk tuk drivers when the psssap total doesn't include any wait time or other stops and I give them a buck or 2 extra. But. I also have experienced not being thanked when I kinda sorta expected it. From the wife's family.
On the subject of opening doors and being polite..the women's lip ..I mean lib movement in the USA cured me of that.
I think helping strangers and being honest have their own rewards.
Be careful with the Xanax. My dear departed mother took that shit after her cocktails and pain pills and then went glass top table diving and a host of other hard surfaces when getting up to urinate in the middle of the night. Her vegetative state the last 9 years was quite a mind fuck.
I took one one time and it was like being hit with a 10 pound sledge hammer.
Please find a safer way to sleep.
User avatar
Username Taken
Raven
Posts: 13900
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 6:53 pm
Reputation: 5963
Cambodia

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by Username Taken »

BR549 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:38 pm
On the subject of opening doors and being polite..the women's lip ..I mean lib movement in the USA cured me of that.
When a women's libber says, "You don't have to hold the door because I'm a lady".

I reply, "I'm not. I'm holding it because I'm a gentleman".

:hattip:
User avatar
Kammekor
Expatriate
Posts: 6376
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:50 pm
Reputation: 2919
Cambodia

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by Kammekor »

BR549 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:38 pm I have Khmer people thank me all the time..especislly tuk tuk drivers when the psssap total doesn't include any wait time or other stops and I give them a buck or 2 extra. But. I also have experienced not being thanked when I kinda sorta expected it. From the wife's family.
within a Khmer family you're more or less expected to help out, don't expect any thanks from them.
User avatar
Phnom Poon
Expatriate
Posts: 1795
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:44 pm
Reputation: 892
Kiribati

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by Phnom Poon »

BR549 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:38 pm ..the women's lip ..I mean lib movement
lol
Username Taken wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:49 pm When a women's libber says, "You don't have to hold the door because I'm a lady".

I reply, "I'm not. I'm holding it because I'm a gentleman".
it's a fine retort, but liable to invite an 'OK, Boomer' response, especially if you're older, or as a projection if you're not
just let the door swing back in their face
or slap their arse

.

monstra mihi bona!
pczz
Expatriate
Posts: 3204
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:00 pm
Reputation: 807
Location: phnom penh
Great Britain

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by pczz »

Kuroneko wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 10:00 am British Politeness and the Progress of Western Manners: An Eighteenth-Century Enigma

IN March 1802, the peace treaty of Amiens was signed, resulting in a two-way flow of travellers across the English Channel. Among those arriving at Dover was Joseph Fiévée, printer by trade, littérateur by vocation, and latterly politican by profession. It is said that he was commissioned by Bonaparte himself to report on affairs in London.

In any event, his findings were published in the Mercure and reprinted in a work whose title, Lettres sur l'Angleterre, et réflexions sur la philosopkie du XVIIIe siècle, challenged comparison with the most famous of French commentaries on England, that of Voltaire. It reads as polemic rather than analysis, confronting what Fiévée took to be serious errors made by his countrymen when they wrote about Britain. But little of the book was what one might expect of such a work. Fiévée was not primarily interested in British politics, law and government, but in the character and manners of the people. His conclusions may be summed up in one of his many generalizations. ‘If civilization … is the art of rendering society pleasing, agreeable and congenial, the English constitute the least civilised nation of Europe.’(Revised February 23 1996) https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ury_Enigma
And we have a saying abou the French. "France is such a beutiful country why did god give it such rude arrogant people as the Freench.
The point is that there are differences in cultures and every culture believed it is right.
jovial fucher
Expatriate
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:35 am
Reputation: 51
Andorra

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by jovial fucher »

talltuktuk wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:10 pm This is a culture that was brutally divided, with all sense of community and unity ripped away from them and destroyed by the Khmer Rouge. The mindset of every person for themselves was programmed into anyone who was allowed to live. When it was all over, that mentality rebuilt the country. There is no empathy, selflessness, no understanding of one’s impact on the people around them because that was deleted from their programming. We hold the door for someone because we recognize that another human being is in that space and it’s wrong to let it shut in their face. Whether we realize this or not, we do this out of consideration for a fellow human being. That consideration was destroyed during the genocide. People from this culture are largely incapable of understanding that there are other people in the world and that their behavior - both good and bad - affects those people. Thus they trample through life never considering anything but themselves. Traffic is a good example of this. Traffic here isn’t bad because of the volume, it’s bad because each driver doesn’t give a shit about how their behavior affects the other drivers around them. The only thing that matters is themselves. Driving into oncoming traffic, lining up 15 people wide at a 2 lane intersection, blindly pulling out in front of each other, the list goes on... it’s all based on not giving a shit about anyone but themselves. The crazy part about all of this is that many of them know this behavior for what it is but refuse to acknowledge or change it. A good example of this is I always hold the door for whoever is behind me. Every single Khmer person has smiled and acknowledged it or even said thank you. So they recognize it as considerate behavior but they will never hold the door for someone else. While this behavior is infuriating sometimes, I consciously choose not to hold it against them because 1) we have a cultural difference and it’s not my place to demand that they change, 2) they’ve been kept largely unintelligent by the powers that be and simply lack critical thinking skills to analyze situations and change, and 3) they have been hopeless and oppressed their entire lives, why should they give a shit? I love this country and the people in it - just living here has been an education in many ways.
Well stated!
monomial
Expatriate
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:48 pm
Reputation: 140
Thailand

Re: Lack of appreciation in the KOW

Post by monomial »

talltuktuk wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:10 pm This is a culture that was brutally divided, with all sense of community and unity ripped away from them and destroyed by the Khmer Rouge. The mindset of every person for themselves was programmed into anyone who was allowed to live. When it was all over, that mentality rebuilt the country. There is no empathy, selflessness, no understanding of one’s impact on the people around them because that was deleted from their programming. We hold the door for someone because we recognize that another human being is in that space and it’s wrong to let it shut in their face. Whether we realize this or not, we do this out of consideration for a fellow human being. That consideration was destroyed during the genocide. People from this culture are largely incapable of understanding that there are other people in the world and that their behavior - both good and bad - affects those people. Thus they trample through life never considering anything but themselves. Traffic is a good example of this. Traffic here isn’t bad because of the volume, it’s bad because each driver doesn’t give a shit about how their behavior affects the other drivers around them. The only thing that matters is themselves. Driving into oncoming traffic, lining up 15 people wide at a 2 lane intersection, blindly pulling out in front of each other, the list goes on... it’s all based on not giving a shit about anyone but themselves. The crazy part about all of this is that many of them know this behavior for what it is but refuse to acknowledge or change it. A good example of this is I always hold the door for whoever is behind me. Every single Khmer person has smiled and acknowledged it or even said thank you. So they recognize it as considerate behavior but they will never hold the door for someone else. While this behavior is infuriating sometimes, I consciously choose not to hold it against them because 1) we have a cultural difference and it’s not my place to demand that they change, 2) they’ve been kept largely unintelligent by the powers that be and simply lack critical thinking skills to analyze situations and change, and 3) they have been hopeless and oppressed their entire lives, why should they give a shit? I love this country and the people in it - just living here has been an education in many ways.
That is an interesting theory that it was a result of the genocide, but I don't think it is true. This same trait is seen in Thais and other SE Asian cultures that were never subjected to the Khmer Rouge. I don't think this idea of holding doors open has ever been a part of Khmer culture. In fact, I would argue that it simply doesn't exist because the idea of even closing a door is almost unheard of throughout their history. I think it is a cold weather phenomenon. Doors are important in places where the weather can get frigid, and holding a door so someone can run in and get out of the weather into a warm room would have been seen as polite. The door closing behind to keep the warm air in and the cold weather out.

In SE Asia though, it has always been hot. Historically doors didn't even exist. There was never any frigid weather to escape from, and air conditioners are a very modern appliance. Historically there wasn't much of a temperature gradient at all between inside and outside. The idea that holding a door is polite simply never had a reason to enter the cultural mainstream.

At the same time, I see Westerners all the time putting their feet up on furniture or failing to remove their shoes. Talk about impolite. Give me a Khmer who doesn't say thank you for holding a door any day over a Western backpacker who tracks dust in or puts their smelly feet on the sofa. It's only once you've spent years in Asia that you realize how completely rude that it.
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: khmerhamster, phuketrichard, Username Taken and 200 guests